Nutty season on the roads

[KawasakiKid]

There is a video of a guy on the Akaroa road doing a Rossi turn and while his bike was not on the centre line his head was close to it and almost got taken out by another rider completely over the centre going the other way.

So what is the campervan doing wrong?

[TheDemonLord]

The "truth" I speak I try and back up with something to support it

No, you take bits that have an element of truth and attempt to parrot them, but in doing so, you remove the context and the nuance.

for example the rider on here who went around a bend with a speed advisory on it over the posted speed and came to grief on gravel or it could have been a car over the centre line.

Both those examples are predicated on the unproven notion that if they went round the corner at the advised speed they would be fine.

This is the removing of context and nuance that I mentioned.

Its no loss to me should you or any of your mates on here choose to ignore such advice.

We ignore it because we like to stay rubber side down.

[swbarnett]

... "centre line hugging" to give them "time" to get out of the way of a car over the centre line as they will be able to see it before the car sees them as taught in riding schools.

This whole "centre line hugging" needs to be clarified.

According to "what is taught in riding schools" that I've seen, entering a left-hander you should be to the right of your lane unless existing traffic precludes this. If no traffic is present through the entire curve you may elect to stay in this lane position with no dramas. If traffic is seen around the corner then you need to switch to the left of the lane and therefore exist the curve on the left while maintaing both forward visibility and your safety bubble.

At no time have I seen anyone advocating staying in the righ lane position irrespective of oncoming traffic.

[swbarnett]

They are still wasting their time though as I am set in my way in the same way they are.

The thing is that "we" are not as set in our ways as you think. If we were we would not be so willing to admit to having things still to learn.

[5ive]

I am getting new people agreeing with me too over the danger of centre line hugging which is taught in riding schools. I guess if you have been riding school taught you will not like that.

Must be true then, seven out of five people agree that opinions beat facts every time.

[swbarnett]

The "truth" I speak

"Truth" is the exclusive purview of the religious zealot. The rest of us deal in "what we know now that we may find needs adjusting in the future".

[KawasakiKid]

a) there's no problem with that.
b) "filmed on a closed road under supervision"

Pic taken during this event. The McLaren F1 also crashed near Queenstown on the Glenorchy Rd

http://cars.mclaren.com/home/events/...land-2016.html

[5ive]

This whole "centre line hugging" needs to be clarified.

According to "what is taught in riding schools" that I've seen, entering a left-hander you should be to the right of your lane unless existing traffic precludes this. If no traffic is present through the entire curve you may elect to stay in this lane position with no dramas. If traffic is seen around the corner then you need to switch to the left of the lane and therefore exist the curve on the left while maintaing both forward visibility and your safety bubble.

At no time have I seen anyone advocating staying in the righ lane position irrespective of oncoming traffic.

I think you may be wasting your time with the explanation, cassina is unable/unwilling to learn new concepts.

Probably believes that at 'riding school', you get taught to hug the centre line around right handers as well.

[KawasakiKid]

And the campervan has a steel flap open at right angles. About 60cm long, very dangerous

[FJRider]

The study you referred me to refers to the advisory speeds as “the maximum speed at which a curve may be comfortably negotiated under good road and weather conditions”. So what you're saying is that the maximum comfortable speed is hte same for a large truck with trailer and a motorcycle? This is blatantly not true.


Exactly, any increase over the advisory is always proportional.


Which is why we must always judge the corner ourselves instead of taking the advisory speeds as gospel.

Not all truck drivers or motorcyclists are experienced in all conditions. Possession of ANY class license does not give you automatic experience. But the license DOES give you responsibility. If their is an issue with advisory speed limits between vehicle classes ... why do so many motorcyclists crash on corners ... if they should/can go faster around corners.

What is your experience driving large truck and trailer units .. ???

[TheDemonLord]

This whole "centre line hugging" needs to be clarified.

Cassina, Please take note of this line.

This is the difference between good advice, and parrotting other people's advice whilst leaving out some very VERY important parts.

You think you are doing the former, but you are doing the latter.

[Akzle]

Cassina, Please take note of this line.

You are a fuckwit and should kill youself you fucken jew cunt.

... must spread

[Berries]

Not all truck drivers or motorcyclists are experienced in all conditions. Possession of ANY class license does not give you automatic experience. But the license DOES give you responsibility. If their is an issue with advisory speed limits between vehicle classes ... why do so many motorcyclists crash on corners ... if they should/can go faster around corners.

It should be obvious but more bikes crash on corners than on straights because they have to deviate from their path and adjust their speed and a whole multitude of other factors that don't occur on a straight when moving at a constant speed. If your speed is not adjusted correctly then you will run out of room and crash. This won't happen on a straight.

Believe it or not more cars crash on curves than on straights and it is the same for trucks if we are looking at single vehicle crashes.

And I wouldn't get too worked up about some kind of magic in setting the advisory speed. Nine times out of ten you can guess what speed it should be on gut instinct and be correct.

[swbarnett]

Not all truck drivers or motorcyclists are experienced in all conditions. Possession of ANY class license does not give you automatic experience. But the license DOES give you responsibility.

Totatlly agree. It seems you think I've said otherwise? If I did then I totally messed up my wording.

If their is an issue with advisory speed limits between vehicle classes ... why do so many motorcyclists crash on corners ... if they should/can go faster around corners.

Because they were going too fast for the conditions. Be that above or below the advisory speed.

What is your experience driving large truck and trailer units .. ???

Absolutely none. Please correct me if I'm wrong in assuming that your average motorcycle can corner faster than your average large truck. This has ceratinly been my limited anecdotal experience.

[FJRider]

It should be obvious but more bikes crash on corners than on straights because they have to deviate from their path and adjust their speed and a whole multitude of other factors that don't occur on a straight when moving at a constant speed. If your speed is not adjusted correctly then you will run out of room and crash. This won't happen on a straight
Believe it or not more cars crash on curves than on straights and it is the same for trucks if we are looking at single vehicle crashes.

If such deviation from a straight path is known to need (in some cases) a reduction in speed ... why didn't they ?? Those that choose to ignore posted advice do so at their peril. The number of crashes by both motorcycles and cars ... suggest their own limits have been exceeded.

Remember tat the limits on speed advisory signs only increase in 10 km/hr increments ... that alone may be some way to being under the possible max speed advised for a corner. As the max advisory limit is 95 km/hr and trucks (and those with trailers) ... are limited to 90 km/h ... as are cars so limited and vehicles so restricted would not fall into the normal class of vehicle for which the advisory limits were set for.
The 85 km/hr limited corners or less might be more pertinent to be adhered to more closely with the different

It would also be safe to assume that vehicles towing trailers might not be as safe at over speed limits set for corners .... than the unfettered lighter vehicles on our roads.

The ambiguity of legislation as it is written may confuse some ... such is legislation. But the responsibility of getting around corners safely ... without endangering other vehicles ... is the responsibility of the vehicle operator. Some riders seem to believe taking a corner with the wheels just to the left of the center line is perfectly acceptable (as are racing lines over the entire road). Time saved cornering ... is not added to your life span if you get it badly wrong in a corner ...

And I wouldn't get too worked up about some kind of magic in setting the advisory speed. Nine times out of ten you can guess what speed it should be on gut instinct and be correct.

It's that one time(out of the ten) I always try to consider ... but other factors like a changed/unexpected road surface (and things on that surface) matter in what actual speed was safe. Do not judge all corners just by their advisory sign prior to their entry.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing though.