Nutty season on the roads

[TheDemonLord]

I have never said people who follow recomeneded speeds would be fine if they do but the chances are they would be less fine the more they exceed the recommendation and not the other way around. I think you are just being semantical.

Based upon what?

It's based upon the assumption that following the rules is equal to safe (or more Safe).

Anyone with any shred of adult reasoning can see this is fundamentally flawed, even your most ardent critics on this site can acknowledge what you are trying to say, but without clarification or nuance, it comes out as retarded drivel.

[FJRider]

Absolutely none. Please correct me if I'm wrong in assuming that your average motorcycle can corner faster than your average large truck. This has ceratinly been my limited anecdotal experience.

Trucks are restricted by legislation to 90 km/hr. Not all the roads in NZ are able to allow any (or all) truck trailer units anywhere the allowable legal limit in speed. Less so in corners ... so the "All vehicles" bit you saw/read might not actually be including trucks (with or without trailers).

As an aside ... some modern truck units can keep a surprising amount of speed through corners ... depending on their load, more what it is rather than weight.

[TheDemonLord]

If you think the consequences of centre line hugging are not clear you can not be very bright.

Can you please point to me where I said that Centre line hugging was both safe and acceptable?

You ride the centre line at your peril. Maybe the photo that the other poster put on of a centre line hugger almost hitting a flap that had popped open on a campervan may educate you.

Can you please point to me where I said that Centre line hugging was both safe and acceptable?

The point here - is that there is a time when riding closer to the Centre line, to give a better sight picture around a bend thus enabling the rider to have the maximum view range to see, identify and if needed, react to hazards, is considered good road craft.

Hugging the Centreline at all times = bad road craft.

The problem is that you are failing to differentiate, qualify and nuance your position - thus you end up giving batshit crazy advise.

[MVnut]

If such deviation from a straight path is known to need (in some cases) a reduction in speed ... why didn't they ?? Those that choose to ignore posted advice do so at their peril. The number of crashes by both motorcycles and cars ... suggest their own limits have been exceeded.

Remember tat the limits on speed advisory signs only increase in 10 km/hr increments ... that alone may be some way to being under the possible max speed advised for a corner. As the max advisory limit is 95 km/hr and trucks (and those with trailers) ... are limited to 90 km/h ... as are cars so limited and vehicles so restricted would not fall into the normal class of vehicle for which the advisory limits were set for.
The 85 km/hr limited corners or less might be more pertinent to be adhered to more closely with the different

It would also be safe to assume that vehicles towing trailers might not be as safe at over speed limits set for corners .... than the unfettered lighter vehicles on our roads.

The ambiguity of legislation as it is written may confuse some ... such is legislation. But the responsibility of getting around corners safely ... without endangering other vehicles ... is the responsibility of the vehicle operator. Some riders seem to believe taking a corner with the wheels just to the left of the center line is perfectly acceptable (as are racing lines over the entire road). Time saved cornering ... is not added to your life span if you get it badly wrong in a corner ...



It's that one time(out of the ten) I always try to consider ... but other factors like a changed/unexpected road surface (and things on that surface) matter in what actual speed was safe. Do not judge all corners just by their advisory sign prior to their entry.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing though.

FFS this is a motorcycle forum. If people can't figure out that truck and trailer units, or cars towing etc etc may need to go a bit slower and/or need a bit more room .....common sense.... they should be taken out and shot

[5ive]

riding closer to the Centre line

Cassina is referring to the 'centreline hugging' that they teach at riding school, which is different.

[FJRider]

It's based upon the assumption that following the rules is equal to safe (or more Safe).

Not always safe .... but it's the way to bet you might live longer ... And safer than assuming there is nobody else coming towards you, that are not "following the rules" either.

Anyone with any shred of adult reasoning can see this is fundamentally flawed, even your most ardent critics on this site can acknowledge what you are trying to say, but without clarification or nuance, it comes out as retarded drivel.

As do many of yours.This one included. Pot calling the kettle ... I think. Especially if you say that following the rules is fundamentally flawed.

[jasonu]

Another on the Ackers mountain, some cunt slightly over the centreline. It's all about being vigilant

Looks like a Top Gear episode.

[old slider]

Centreline hugging not such a great idea....pic of a friend.....but what about that campervan

The least he could have done is close that opened side door on the camper as it went past, lol (sorry its been noted)

Reason for edit, Kawasaki kid spotted it, I hadn't got that far through the thread when I posted.

[TheDemonLord]

Not always safe .... but it's the way to bet you might live longer ... And safer than assuming there is nobody else coming towards you, that are not "following the rules" either.

As do many of yours.This one included. Pot calling the kettle ... I think. Especially if you say that following the rules is fundamentally flawed.

I'm sure they (and you) do, But then, I've only ever proclaimed to be an opinion with an asshole, who loves to argue.

To address that actual serious point though - there are 2 counter-points

The first is found in the NZ legislation, I CBF looking up the exact section - but paraphrased it says:

"If it's to avoid Death or serious injury, then throw all these rules out the window"

The second counter-point is a follow on from that - which is following the rules at all times, with no regard for situation, circumstance or scenario is the fundamental flaw I speak of. Proclaiming a rigid following of rules is any guarantee of safety is wrong.

Following the rules for the majority of situations, where the circumstances warrant it = good advice (this is the Kernel of truth in Cassina's post)
Following the rules absolutely with a disregard of circumstance = bad advice (which seems to be what Cassina is espousing)

[TheDemonLord]

Cassina is referring to the 'centreline hugging' that they teach at riding school, which is different.

Centreline hugging or riding in the right hand wheel track, I got told about the latter from a couple of instructors - reasons given are better visibility for other road users and better grip as gravel/crap/stuff tends to get brushed away from this bit of road by other road users tyre tread.

Those same instructors though did caution riding too close to the centreline - citing reasons such as the Camper van picture.

[5ive]

Centreline hugging or riding in the right hand wheel track, I got told about the latter from a couple of instructors - reasons given are better visibility for other road users and better grip as gravel/crap/stuff tends to get brushed away from this bit of road by other road users tyre tread.

Those same instructors though did caution riding too close to the centreline - citing reasons such as the Camper van picture.

I don't think cassina has explained it properly for us yet, we don't know and are not safe, but what I do know so far is

it's not a problem when you are hugging the left hand white line at all times and going slower than the speed limit as much as possible to be safe and not on a group ride without any pressure to keep up and watching out for teleporting dogs that instantly appear and there is nothing you can do to avoid hitting them and having an accident and a facebook post backs that up and so has been said at other times in other threads and backed up by other people who have not posted but it helps those who are viewing the thread but don't post.

[swbarnett]

so the "All vehicles" bit you saw/read might not actually be including trucks (with or without trailers).

Good point. There are often subtelties that aren't (and often can't be) communicated on the signs.
Admittedly the "all vehicles" bit was an assumption on my part due to the lack of anything to the contrary.

[Gremlin]

This whole "centre line hugging" needs to be clarified.

According to "what is taught in riding schools" that I've seen, entering a left-hander you should be to the right of your lane unless existing traffic precludes this. If no traffic is present through the entire curve you may elect to stay in this lane position with no dramas. If traffic is seen around the corner then you need to switch to the left of the lane and therefore exist the curve on the left while maintaing both forward visibility and your safety bubble.

At no time have I seen anyone advocating staying in the righ lane position irrespective of oncoming traffic.

This reduces what needs to be said in answering cassina

Centreline hugging or riding in the right hand wheel track, I got told about the latter from a couple of instructors - reasons given are better visibility for other road users and better grip as gravel/crap/stuff tends to get brushed away from this bit of road by other road users tyre tread.

Those same instructors though did caution riding too close to the centreline - citing reasons such as the Camper van picture.

This helps too.

Quite simply, in roadcraft terms, there is very little to be followed by rote (road rules obviously have to be followed so let's ignore that element). Namely, it is a set of principles in a system that you apply in a flexible approach to every situation.

Your position on the road is dictated by your Safety, your Stability and your View (SSV) and in that order of priority.
Safety: Safety is your number one priority. Oncoming vehicles? Sacrifice position for safety.
Stability: Gravel/crap on the road? Road broken up? Don't position yourself there.
View: Having satisfied your safety and stability, you position yourself to maximise your view. This is mostly where people think it's a hard rule of left on right handers and vice versa or extreme positioning... forgetting the two points above. This is mostly relevant in rural areas given the higher speeds. Urban areas with a 50kph limit, you're mostly positioning to see, to be seen etc.

[KawasakiKid]

Cassina, it is good you are not in Italy. You would spend so much time reading the road signs you would get no riding done (maybe a good thing)

[KawasakiKid]

This is my personal favourite, it means "Half a Death Star ahead"