Lower Speed Tolerances - Whodathunkit

[caspernz]

What I took your post to mean was that you're happy doing whatever your "betters" tell you to do, irrespective of wether the stated reason makes sense or not. Was I wrong?

Not at all, the main premise being that staring at a speedo regularly is a chore. To me that's nonsense, cruising along near the limit shouldn't be difficult for an experienced rider/driver.

But hokey pokey is a good ice cream flavor...

[TheDemonLord]

Not at all, the main premise being that staring at a speedo regularly is a chore. To me that's nonsense, cruising along near the limit shouldn't be difficult for an experienced rider/driver.

But hokey pokey is a good ice cream flavor...

Cruising near the limit is fine - however how much leniency is 'near'

What the study indicates is that the smaller the leniency, the more pressure is placed on the driver, resulting in a decrease in situational awareness and peripheral hazard identification.

I'd be interested in further studies - I suspect there is a sweet spot - where most drivers are relaxed, but is not too permissive - my gut tells me it will be around 10-20 kph for the open road and 5-10 kph for residential.

[TheDemonLord]

I'd disagree.
The graphs are showing what "they" are doing isn't working.
Period.

Dumb people doing the same thing over and over yet expecting different results = mentally retarded fuckwits forming policy in gubbinment departments.


Perhaps they could start with driving/vehicle operator skills?




It's nice to know that there is a 4kmh tolerance happening. Is there? I've seen nothing to that effect, so 130 is the normal average to maintain on the open roads.

That was my point

[caspernz]

Cruising near the limit is fine - however how much leniency is 'near'

What the study indicates is that the smaller the leniency, the more pressure is placed on the driver, resulting in a decrease in situational awareness and peripheral hazard identification.

I'd be interested in further studies - I suspect there is a sweet spot - where most drivers are relaxed, but is not too permissive - my gut tells me it will be around 10-20 kph for the open road and 5-10 kph for residential.

In my professional environment I find a driver who is happy to cruise at the posted limit, will invariably have a lower incident rate than one who habitually does "the limit plus the tolerance". The speed isn't the main problem though, there is a tendency for a hurry-up type of driver to also bend a few other road rules, thus shrinking the margin for error. So picture a tailgater, over the limit already, then being happy to make a risky overtake, sooner or later it goes wrong...

That said, ticketing drivers for 4 km/h over in good open road conditions is an excellent way to alienate the public from Mr Plod.

[pritch]

That said, ticketing drivers for 4 km/h over in good open road conditions is an excellent way to alienate the public from Mr Plod.

Are they still doing that? I didn't see any publicity about it prior to Christmas, not that I was interested, I had no intention of driving between 100 and 104 anyway.

[old slider]

In my professional environment I find a driver who is happy to cruise at the posted limit, will invariably have a lower incident rate than one who habitually does "the limit plus the tolerance". The speed isn't the main problem though, there is a tendency for a hurry-up type of driver to also bend a few other road rules, thus shrinking the margin for error. So picture a tailgater, over the limit already, then being happy to make a risky overtake, sooner or later it goes wrong...

That said, ticketing drivers for 4 km/h over in good open road conditions is an excellent way to alienate the public from Mr Plod.

Driving to Auckland and back I can save about $50 on the fuel costs, against when my son does the driving, granted we may have a slightly longer trip with me driving, but its probably not more than about 30 mins each way, plus it feels more relaxed, see a bit more of the country side and no doubt saves on tyres and brakes.

We are talking less than 10 kmh average speed difference.

edit: I am talking 4 wheels though.

[Moi]

Are they still doing that? I didn't see any publicity about it prior to Christmas, not that I was interested, I had no intention of driving between 100 and 104 anyway.

So... you drive/ride below 100km/h or above 104km/h?

one of these dawdle along and then bury the boot on the passing lane drivers?

[Big Dog]

Are they still doing that? I didn't see any publicity about it prior to Christmas, not that I was interested, I had no intention of driving between 100 and 104 anyway.

On the book of faeces there was a post being circulated that originated from one of the Auckland police stations.
Can't remember the copy, but along the lines of watch out, lower tolerance for speeding from first Saturday of December until last Sunday in January.


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[swbarnett]

Not at all, the main premise being that staring at a speedo regularly is a chore. To me that's nonsense, cruising along near the limit shouldn't be difficult for an experienced rider/driver.

Yeah, definitely got the wrong end of this one. I totally agree. For an experienced rider/driver it's not really an issue. However, I don't think there are actually too many of these around.

The real issue I have with speed limits is that they deny the fact that every driver/rider has their own optimal cruising speed for a given set of conditions. Speed limits force faster drivers/riders to slow down and slower ones to speed up, neither will improve road safety.

But hokey pokey is a good ice cream flavor...

Totally agree with you there. Especially if it's a quality brand.

[5ive]

On the book of faeces there was a post being circulated that originated from one of the Auckland police stations.
Can't remember the copy, but along the lines of watch out, lower tolerance for speeding from first Saturday of December until last Sunday in January.


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It was the one from last year: 2015/16. Some people just got upset and commented on/shared it, without even reading it properly

There was nothing for this year, no media releases at all.

[caspernz]

Are they still doing that? I didn't see any publicity about it prior to Christmas, not that I was interested, I had no intention of driving between 100 and 104 anyway.

We got a heads-up at work about the 4 km/h tolerance from start of December thru to end of January.

Driving to Auckland and back I can save about $50 on the fuel costs, against when my son does the driving, granted we may have a slightly longer trip with me driving, but its probably not more than about 30 mins each way, plus it feels more relaxed, see a bit more of the country side and no doubt saves on tyres and brakes.

We are talking less than 10 kmh average speed difference.

edit: I am talking 4 wheels though.

Funny you say that, a relaxed pace which doesn't impede faster traffic, is more cost effective.

Yeah, definitely got the wrong end of this one. I totally agree. For an experienced rider/driver it's not really an issue. However, I don't think there are actually too many of these around.

The real issue I have with speed limits is that they deny the fact that every driver/rider has their own optimal cruising speed for a given set of conditions. Speed limits force faster drivers/riders to slow down and slower ones to speed up, neither will improve road safety.

So we can agree then that the 4 km/h tolerance and the hoohaa it creates is a bit of a nonsense. Yes we can argue the validity of how high speed limits are set, but that's not a discussion for the roadside with the enforcer, that's one for TPTB in their nice suits, with joe public making a lot of noise. Bit hard to argue for higher limits when the driving standard, not to mention good parts of the roading network, can't support faster speeds.

Some of the drama around varying "natural cruise speeds" that folks have, and I agree with that way of thinking, stems from ignorance and arrogance. If I'm trucking along and see a queue of vehicles forming behind me, I make an effort to make it nice and easy for them to come past me. Over holiday periods we tend to see lots of folks who only venture out of town over the Xmas break, and they treat the road to their destination as their own private driveway...

I can't help but think of the old joke from George Carlin. Drivers can be sorted into two groups, morons and maniacs. A moron being someone who wants to travel slower than me, and a maniac one who wants to go faster than me. Can't argue with his logic at times...

[neels]

I have noticed this a couple of times, when driving in the presence of a following police car while the lower tolerance is being enforced.

On the long straight boring roads it's no problem, just set the cruise control at 100 and steer. Once the road gets a bit more bendy and up/down hill it does require a lot more attention to the speedo to make sure you don't accidentally creep up to a deadly 105 coasting downhill, at which point I would have thought looking at where the next corner goes would make a much greater contribution to road safety.

[Moise]

I just ignore the lower tolerance BS. I've driven past a few cops at an indicated 110, which is more like 105, with no response. Plus it's only a $30 fine and 10 points.

Much safer to look where you're going than worry about a few km/h.

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[onearmedbandit]

Much safer to look where you're going than worry about a few km/h.

In an ideal world that would be the message that was given.

[FJRider]

Serious question.
You ride a big bike now.
Yet here you tell us that when being followed by the Police you had to keep looking at your speedo, what for?
do you not know what speed your bike is doing at particular revs, in each gear?
Do you not know approximately how fast you are going by the simple expedient of looking at your surroundings the road side furniture, the traffic in front of you and across from you and know to within a k or so what speed you are doing?
Yep, you have really learned a lot since growing up and getting into your big boys pants.
Fuck me, someone put me out of my misery.
This knob can't tell when to brake, when to avoid approaching animals, where there might be black/any! ice, yet they don't need to improve their riding skills, because they know all they need to know about motorcycling.
Worse he stiffens up and starts watching the dials when there is a nice Policeman behind them. What about the kids on the footpath, the stray dogs coming at you from all diretions, what about the traffic lights that have just gone yellow/Orange!
Mr Policeman just wants to know that you can ride competently, I'd wager that any practiced copper will pick you for exactly what you are. An ACCIDENT waiting to happen.
Get off our roads.

It never fails to amuse me that so many self declared "Experienced" (skilled .. ???) riders ... have difficulty when riding their own motorcycle ... to keep to the posted speed limit ... without the need to be constantly checking.

Most Licensed motorists have trouble understanding that the posted open road speed limit is 100 km/hr. And ... you CAN be ticked for 1 km/hr over that. It is up to the discretion of the officer at the time the motorist is stopped ... to issue a ticket. OR NOT !!! Your attitude (and often his/hers) will decide the outcome. Fucking bleating about a bullshit "Tolerance" later in Court ... will be grasping at straws.

We all know the rules ... if you're big enough to break them ... be big enough to take the hit if you get pinged. Too many motorcyclists are dead because they were simply going too fast for the conditions ... so the actual speed is irrelevant. I Hope that none of you reading this ... will be the next one to die this way.