Cranking but no start

[pzkpfw]

Last weekend I changed the oil and filter. Bike was started a few times as part of that, so hopefully not related.

Then on Tuesday, tried to start bike - seemed to try to fire once, but then nothing. Cranks fine, just no spark. (Have charged battery.) I can hear the fuel pump doing it's usual priming when the electrics are started. (I think I smell a little petrol - either way, for now assuming electrical, not fueling problems).

Have checked kill switch (off, the bike doesn't even crank) and tried starting with clutch in in case the thing doesn't think it's in neutral (green neutral light is on, on dash, anyway). Also tried side stand up/down.


The only electrical things I've seen:

High beam won't come on (not the bulb, nor the dash indicator). I don't recall ever using high beam with the engine off, but looking at the wiring diagram in the service manual it seems it should. Low beam does come on. Is this a clue? Not sure how that'd be related to a starting issue, but seems possible.

The FI (Fuel Injection) warning light does sometimes come on when I try to crank, but not always.


This weekend I'll strip off as much bodywork as I can, and do a good search for chaffed wiring or bad plugs, but after that it'll be a call to TSS - if it's sensors or ECU or something, that's beyond me.


Any suggestions? Is the high beam issue a clue or a red herring?

[awayatc]

Are the coils properly earthed?....

[T.W.R]

DFI sensor been knocked or come loose?

[Banditbandit]

Sounds electrical - is there spark at the plugs?

I hate chasing electrons - I'm too old and blind to see the little shits - I get some-else to do that.

[pzkpfw]

Thanks for the above replies. All things I looked at.

I'm going to look a real twit, but I'll come clean as I don't like (problem) threads like this left un-ended (solution), and maybe it'll help someone.

Spent Sunday stripping body off the bike so I could inspect all the wiring and plugs I could (didn't go as far as taking the tank off).

Did find some bad rubbing on the sub-frame under the bikini fairing. Several places where the tape wrapped around the loom had worn off, and the frame itself was showing bare metal - paint rubbed off. Mr Kawasaki didn't get some of the cable routing quite right. I thought I saw bare metal in some wires, so peeled off some more of the tape for a good look. It turned out I was seeing the gold spots used to distinguish that yellow wire with black stripe from that other yellow wire with black stripe. Anyway, re-wrapped those bits of the loom - and will make it a winter project to do something a bit more permanent to protect the wiring. (And dab some paint on the exposed bits of sub-frame).

Inspected all the plugs/sockets, did find a little corrosion inside one. Did some cleaning.

Tried to make the self-diagnosis do it's thing. There's a "spare" bullet connector in the loom near the fuse box. If it's grounded for more than 2 seconds, the FI light is supposed to flash a "morse code" kind of thing that tells you what fault the system currently has. If it's grounded 5 times in 2 seconds then held down for more than 2 seconds, it'll tell you the stored fault code. I got no codes either way.

(
In the middle of all this, I left the business-card box I keep my small multi-meter in on the floor, but not out of the way. Managed to step on it in bare feet. Cut one foot (the electrical tape I bought the day before came in handy), and turned a toe on my other foot purple. Bruised my back trying (successfully) not to knock the bike over or land on any side panels as I fell over.
)

I started to look at the sensors and read the manual on how to test them, and got the idea I really wanted the experts to do that. So reassembled the bike.

As a final check I gave the bike a start - and it did. It stalled out at idle, but if I kept the revs up it would run (and high beam would come on). So I re-checked the battery; it was showing 12.5 volts, and the manual says 12.6 volts is minimum. It turns out I'd made a bit of an assumption. The recent problems I've had with my car, the fact I'd just changed the oil, the strong cranking, and testing the battery but not reading the manual all had me "sure" the battery was fine and something "complicated" was going on.

But it was simple. I bought a new battery, and the bike seems fine for now.

I'm a fucking idiot.

[neels]

Check the charging voltage with the new battery installed, normally should be around 14V, the 12.6 you mentioned is not running. Also check there is minimal AC voltage at the battery, just in case it's a charging problem....

The computer things can be fussy on what they consider an acceptable voltage to function, and if the battery is crook it might look ok on DC volts but that can just be an average of a high ripple voltage with the alternator doing it's best to charge a brick.

My bike got trailered home when the battery died, the computer turned into a random number generator without a proper battery load to smooth the alternator output, the disco lights on the dash and flames out the exhaust were entertaining though.

[pzkpfw]

Check the charging voltage ...

Fair point; there could yet be other problems.

The Oxford charger couldn't get the old battery to that 12.6 V, so not immediately suspecting the bikes own charging circuit - but having learned about assumptions, yes ... checking that will be the next project.


(The old battery was pretty much due for replacement, so didn't find it suspicious. Did something "new" this time - a bit of masking tape on top of the battery, with the installation date written on it.)

[AllanB]

Good it's fixed. Did you read the battery thread before choosing one .....


Modern stuff is very sensitive to a good battery. Years back you had weeks of slow cranking notice before it went flat and then you could charge the bugger on and off for weeks before you had to replace it.

[neels]

Fair point; there could yet be other problems.

The Oxford charger couldn't get the old battery to that 12.6 V, so not immediately suspecting the bikes own charging circuit - but having learned about assumptions, yes ... checking that will be the next project.

If the charger can't get it there either then that probably answers the question, but it never hurts to check. I have also been known to spend a lot of time looking for faults that aren't there due to assumptions....