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Thread: I see HD Australia have given ANZA Motorcycles the see you later message.

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crasherfromwayback View Post
    And therein lies HD's biggest problem world wide. Need fresh meat. In the company too I reckon.
    Aggressively doing the Dark Customs, marketing heavily to millennials and new platform driven by Euro 4 and 5 and equivalents.

    I'd still like one. I just havent managed to liberate the fucking money.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenryDorsetCase View Post
    Aggressively doing the Dark Customs, marketing heavily to millennials and new platform driven by Euro 4 and 5 and equivalents.

    I'd still like one. I just havent managed to liberate the fucking money.
    I reckon if I had access to their parts bins and drawing boards I could come up with something better.

  3. #33
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    It's not just HD doing this,
    think this type of 'bully tactics' was a big part of the reason TSS in Hutt has dropped Canam Spyders. {Yes we all know what some of you think about Spyders/riders} There are several manufacturers who now seem to be pushing this American/HD? notion of a 'Destination Dealer' single brand, ALL products, clothing, etc etc {including now some Japanese and European marques}. Along with a staggered trade discount aligned with how much of their product range you carry. Considering the size of the NZ population, and even adding Aussie it's less than 25 million. There just aren't enough people buying a single product to warrant the risk of single brand dealerships unless you are in a major city.
    Could we end up with niche brands literally only being available from one or two shops Nationwide?
    I ride a canam as well as 2 wheels, my ex has ridden a canam for 6yrs, at present the nearest 'dealer' is in Palmy North, if they go? What's her/our option? Main {destination dealer} in Auckland? Imagine the shipping costs to transport you niche brand bike' 3/4/600km's if broken down/crashed.
    Will the Aussie main importers listen to NZ shops/importers? I've read threads where even certain models of Honda's etc are not going to be sold here/aussie, even if there may be sales for them.
    How do we as the customer get these huge corporations to actually understand us as a 'small market', do they even really give a RATS ARSE about sales in NZ/Aus?
    If the road to hell is paved with good intentions; and a man is judged by his deeds and his actions, why say it's the thought that counts? -GrayWolf

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrayWolf View Post
    It's not just HD doing this,
    think this type of 'bully tactics' was a big part of the reason TSS in Hutt has dropped Canam Spyders. {Yes we all know what some of you think about Spyders/riders} There are several manufacturers who now seem to be pushing this American/HD? notion of a 'Destination Dealer' single brand, ALL products, clothing, etc etc {including now some Japanese and European marques}. Along with a staggered trade discount aligned with how much of their product range you carry. Considering the size of the NZ population, and even adding Aussie it's less than 25 million. There just aren't enough people buying a single product to warrant the risk of single brand dealerships unless you are in a major city.
    Could we end up with niche brands literally only being available from one or two shops Nationwide?
    I ride a canam as well as 2 wheels, my ex has ridden a canam for 6yrs, at present the nearest 'dealer' is in Palmy North, if they go? What's her/our option? Main {destination dealer} in Auckland? Imagine the shipping costs to transport you niche brand bike' 3/4/600km's if broken down/crashed.
    Will the Aussie main importers listen to NZ shops/importers? I've read threads where even certain models of Honda's etc are not going to be sold here/aussie, even if there may be sales for them.
    How do we as the customer get these huge corporations to actually understand us as a 'small market', do they even really give a RATS ARSE about sales in NZ/Aus?
    The hard thing for importers in NZ is getting floor space. So in some cases importers are bankrolling shops, so the shop owner just needs a lease and staff and the importer gives them everything on consignment or on long terms. Not talking motorcycle trade here as I dont deal with it. But this is happening with other trades. Problem you have then is the shop owner goes in with minimal capital then cant keep up with costs.

    This is why you will start seeing more concept shops where the importer or manufacturer owns the shop.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrayWolf View Post
    Will the Aussie main importers listen to NZ shops/importers?
    Will the NZ market stop undermining the viability of motorcycle dealerships by ceasing private imports of parts and accessories from larger markets? I don't think so. Best you get used to travelling to Auckland, pop.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madness View Post
    Will the NZ market stop undermining the viability of motorcycle dealerships by ceasing private imports of parts and accessories from larger markets? I don't think so. Best you get used to travelling to Auckland, pop.
    Are you suggesting that adding a zero to parts and accessories anyone with a computer can access is the only way motorcycle dealerships can remain viable?

    Or does it also take workshop hourly rates of $140/hr?
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    Are you suggesting that adding a zero to parts and accessories anyone with a computer can access is the only way motorcycle dealerships can remain viable?

    Or does it also take workshop hourly rates of $140/hr?
    I'm suggesting that the trend over the past 5-10 years of not buying parts & accessories from the local motorcycle dealership is significantly contributing towards changes in that industry that will ultimately result in a reduction in consumer choice and local competition.

    Pretty soon the reality might well be that there are only farm bike shops in the regional centres with less mainstream brands like Can-Am being supported by one or two dealerships nationwide. And no helmets with graphics, anywhere but online.

    We should start getting used to it.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madness View Post
    I'm suggesting that the trend over the past 5-10 years of not buying parts & accessories from the local motorcycle dealership is significantly contributing towards changes in that industry that will ultimately result in a reduction in consumer choice and local competition.

    Pretty soon the reality might well be that there are only farm bike shops in the regional centres with less mainstream brands like Can-Am being supported by one or two dealerships nationwide. And no helmets with graphics, anywhere but online.

    We should start getting used to it.
    So, again, NZ businesses can only compete if their prices are much, much higher than they are overseas?

    I'm not blaming them, or consumers, I'd just like to know why that's the case. So far I've not seen anyone adequately explained the reasons behind the New Zealand paradox: http://www.productivity.govt.nz/work...tivity-paradox .

    The closest I've seen for the ott costs charged here is attributed to the manufacturers/distributors: Because we can.
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    So, again, NZ businesses can only compete if their prices are much, much higher than they are overseas?

    I'm not blaming them, or consumers, I'd just like to know why that's the case. So far I've not seen anyone adequately explained the reasons behind the New Zealand paradox: http://www.productivity.govt.nz/work...tivity-paradox .

    The closest I've seen for the ott costs charged here is attributed to the manufacturers/distributors: Because we can.
    I might look at that link later, I'm supposed to be working (import/distribution, if you were wondering).

    When I was a kid in the '80's life was pretty idyllic. The only time you got a glimpse into how NZ prices were disproportionately high compared to overseas was when Aunty Susan bought a toy catalogue back from a trip to Australia. I figure it's always been this way. What has changed is our awareness and access to other, larger markets where the prices are in many cases significantly less than local retail.

    The way I see it is that none of us (first lie of the week) are cunts. The retailers and importers aren't cunts either. We live in a tiny country with massive distances from both manufacturing countries and larger consumer markets and we have a highly regulated marketplace. It's not rocket surgery why we're in the situation we're in and I see parallels between this and why a chocolate bar is $3 at Pak N Save and the same item is $5 at the local dairy.

    As consumers the only options I see are to either change our purchasing habits (as you put it, add a zero), move to USA or suck it up and get used to our choices and competition at local retail level being further diminished.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madness View Post
    We live in a tiny country with massive distances from both manufacturing countries and larger consumer markets and we have a highly regulated marketplace. It's not rocket surgery why we're in the situation we're in and I see parallels between this and why a chocolate bar is $3 at Pak N Save and the same item is $5 at the local dairy.
    As consumers the only options I see are to either change our purchasing habits (as you put it, add a zero), move to USA or suck it up and get used to our choices and competition at local retail level being further diminished.
    All of those differences fail to explain anything like the price disparities involved. I'll rephrase that: Across many studies, nobody has succeeded in finding any reason for the disparity in productive performance improvements and living standards in NZ.

    Which is why it's called the NZ paradox. NZ ranks as one of the most productive countries in the world. According to the world's economic experts we're a textbook example for the rest of the world on how to manage an economy. GDP here has increased more than almost all of the OECD over the last several decades. And yet over the same timeframe our standard of living has improved much less than almost every other western world nation.

    To me the reason's obvious: we pay more for everything than they do, much more. And our products sell for less overseas than they do here. Which sorta puts the lie to your transport cost theory. All of which simply pushes the question back a step, dunnut: Why?

    BTW, our marketplace is among the least regulated on the planet.
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    All of those differences fail to explain anything like the price disparities involved. Why?
    I thought the Pak N Save analogy was pretty simple really, maybe you're over-thinking it a little?

    Let me help you by dumbing it down even further. Pak N Save order king-size chocolate blocks by the carton, which probably come from a national distribution centre that orders from the factory by the pallet (if not by the truckload) and ships a variety of bulk goods to each store location. The dairy buys 2-3 bars of any one variety at a time and the silly Nagi drives across town to pick up half a dozen bars each week, from Pak N Save. The dairy would turn over in a year what the Pak N Save he buys his chocolate bars from does in an hour. The dairy needs 30-40% to survive, Pak N Save operate on well less than 10% of a much larger turnover and most Pak N Save owners are worth millions.

    Offshore bike dealers buy parts & accessories by the pallet and have a massive turnover compared to a local NZ bike dealership. Regardless of this, the local dealership is expected to keep a broad range of parts and accessories in stock, despite having a fraction of the turn-over. Voila! Higer prices. It's one of those situations where you can have any one of two out of three things but not all three.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    BTW, our marketplace is among the least regulated on the planet.
    That may well be, however expenses that small businesses in New Zealand face with a relatively limited turnover compared to larger offshore competition all contributes towards the need for a higher operating profit margin to pay the bills.

    Hey, I'm not saying it's unfair, it's just life in modern New Zealand. We have other options though, per my previous post.

    Or maybe it's just that the importers are all cunts and no-one's ever thought of or been prepared to break the mold with lower wholesale prices?

    Maybe all the bike shops that have closed down in recent years were all owned by cunts who made so much money from raping us all those years that they all thought "fuck it" and went to the beach?

    Nah, I reckon the answer to your paradox could be as simple as the fact that in a globalised economy the little fish are always going to struggle and we're (take this as NZ motorcyclists for the sake of relevance) about as small a fish as you can get.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    GDP here has increased more than almost all of the OECD over the last several decades. And yet over the same timeframe our standard of living has improved much less than almost every other western world nation.
    Take the Tiwai Point smelter, Taharoa Iron Sands and Fonterra out of our economy. What's left of any significance?

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madness View Post
    I thought the Pak N Save analogy was pretty simple really, maybe you're over-thinking it a little?

    Let me help you by dumbing it down even further. Pak N Save order king-size chocolate blocks by the carton, which probably come from a national distribution centre that orders by the pallet and ships a variety of bulk goods to each store location. The dairy buys 2-3 bars of any one variety at a time and the silly Nagi drives across town to pick up half a dozen bars each week, from Pak N Save. The dairy would turn over in a year what the Pak N Save he buys his chocolate bars from does in an hour. The dairy needs 30-40% to survive, Pak N Save operate on well less than 10% of a much larger turnover.

    Offshore bike dealers buy parts & accessories by the pallet and have a massive turnover compared to a local NZ bike dealership. Regardless of this, the local dealership is expected to keep a broad range of parts and accessories in stock, despite having a fraction of the turn-over. Voila! Higer prices. It's one of those situations where you can have any one of two out of three things but not all three.




    That may well be, however expenses that small businesses in New Zealand face with a relatively limited turnover compared to larger offshore competition all contributes towards the need for a higher operating profit margin to pay the bills.

    Hey, I'm not saying it's unfair, it's just life in modern New Zealand. We have other options though, per my previous post.

    Or maybe it's just that the importers are all cunts and no-one's ever thought of or been prepared to prepared to break the mold with lower prices?

    Maybe all the bike shops that have closed down in recent years were all owned by cunts who made so much money from raping us all those years that they all thought "fuck it" and went to the beach?

    I reckon the answer to your paradox could be as simple as the fact that in a globalised economy the little fish are always going to struggle and we're (take this as NZ motorcyclists for the sake of relevance) about as small a fish as you can get.
    So, to take your analogy a little further: why doesn't everyone bypass the corner dairy and buy their chocolate from Pak N Save? The answer, of course is that wherever possible they do. And, as I said where the market prevents that then the resulting price differences are well more than the pointy head dudes reckon can be explained by economies of scale. Or anything else.

    WRT the bike industry in particular I don't actually have a problem so much with the price of new bikes. On the whole they seem not to be hideously more expensive than elsewhere. Those parts and accessories you mentioned are a problem. If the local shop was stocking all everything you say they are you might have a point, but they usually take longer to supply a given part than someone in the UK or Singapore AND charge over twice as much.

    As for the closed shops: it's difficult to go past the observation that they just weren't offering anything their clients wanted to buy at the price. Reasons for failure don't come much more fundamental than that.

    And yes, I think you're right re the fish. Which makes it hard to understand why the US and UK seen to think they're so hard done by recently. If they ever succeed in repatriating their manufacturing bases their prices will go through the roof. They've benefited from the big vs small market advantage for so long they don't see that the guys making their shit for a dollar an hour are the reason their shit is so cheap.

    Interesting times, are they big enough to win an all out trade war?
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    Interesting times, are they big enough to win an all out trade war?
    Interesting times alright.

    My little corner of the world involves working for a small Kiwi company that's been growing turnover at a rate of between 15~20% each year with very little increase in head-count. Our distribution is mostly through small independent merchants and our strengths lie in the provinces, not Auckland. The competition can have Auckland.

    We work along-side an Aussie company. Same product range, same distribution model via re-sellers. Their re-sellers carry a multitude of competing brands while our guys are mostly exclusive to us, or may have another brand, two at most. Our Aussie mates buy at the same USD factory price, their shipping costs are very similar. They turn over our annual sales figure in a good month and have distribution centres in each state. Their retail prices are significantly cheaper than ours for the same products, so much so it gives me the shits when I see the disparity.

    Fortunately for us, the internet phenomenon doesn't seem to work for all products. Our market segment doesn't seem to like e-commerce and I'm quite happy to be selling to small business owners who make their own decisions at store level. Meanwhile, the corporates and foreigners are all down-scaling, consolidating or pulling out.

    Incidentally, my boss just bought a new-to-him used car and we're both working again tomorrow.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madness View Post
    Interesting times alright.

    My little corner of the world involves working for a small Kiwi company that's been growing turnover at a rate of between 15~20% each year with very little increase in head-count. Our distribution is mostly through small independent merchants and our strengths lie in the provinces, not Auckland. The competition can have Auckland.

    We work along-side an Aussie company. Same product range, same distribution model via re-sellers. Their re-sellers carry a multitude of competing brands while our guys are mostly exclusive to us, or may have another brand, two at most. Our Aussie mates buy at the same USD factory price, their shipping costs are very similar. They turn over our annual sales figure in a good month and have distribution centres in each state. Their retail prices are significantly cheaper than ours for the same products, so much so it gives me the shits when I see the disparity.

    Fortunately for us, the internet phenomenon doesn't seem to work for all products. Our market segment doesn't seem to like e-commerce and I'm quite happy to be selling to small business owners who make their own decisions at store level. Meanwhile, the corporates and foreigners are all down-scaling, consolidating or pulling out.

    Incidentally, my boss just bought a new-to-him used car and we're both working again tomorrow.
    Aye. I find myself in a similarly unique place. Only I'm working tomorrow to pay the tax man, fuck the boss.

    Possible partial answer: http://sciblogs.co.nz/a-measure-of-s...adox-part-i-2/
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassina View Post
    Lets not forget it was said when registration went up motorcycle sales in NZ would take a dive resulting in shops closing down. So all those on here happy paying the higher registration fees can not complain about shops closing down.
    bro, do you even logic?
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