Literal for profit cameras?

[Zedder]

What about endangering others through your actions on the road ... ???

Refer to your own post #74 for answer regarding harm.

[TheDemonLord]

They wont be asked to tar seal a road ... so we're safe there ..

But are you actually aware HOW the information from camera vans process the information gathered during their time "Parked" ... is then converted to due process of law with infringement notices issued ... you can not have an intelligent argument on (possibility of) falsification of work hours or any other required data.

More or less - Who said anything about Work hours? I can think of a few ways that the Data could be manipulated either by Malice or Malpractice.

1. The contractor will be using LTSA supplied and certified equipment.

So does the NZTA also handle all the maintenance? Or the more likely scenario that this will be done in-house or using a 3rd party (approved) contractor. Now granted - the procedure will probably require some form of Certified testing method - but consider this:

The NZ Police use a tuned fork that oscillates at a known frequency to test their Radar equipment - this is recorded at the start of the day in a log book in handwriting with the Officers signature.

How hard is it to tick the box, fill in the paperwork without either doing the test or recording the accurate result?

2. The contractor will be trained to a certified level to meet a standard that would meet court criteria.

Yes - but the requirement to maintain that standard now sits outside the purview of the Government. I've trained IT staff on certain products and applications - I can assure you, not all of them would be considered competent enough to use said application with Admin rights without supervision.

3. The information gathered by the certified "Camera" machine is sealed and (usually) downloaded into LTSA computers at the end of their work day. NO direct interference/alteration to that information (or machine programing) is possible.[/quote]

As someone who works in IT:

Bull.
Shit.

In order to download the data - there must be a way to 'interfere' and 'alter' the data - be it over a network connection, cable connection or custom interface - any method that the NZTA can use to access the data has the possibility of being replicated.

There are certainly ways this can be minimised - but to say it's not possible is, quite frankly, Retarded.

5. VW supplied information on their own systems ... using their own programs. Programs designed to withhold relevant information ... giving a false result to data gathered.

Try again.

VW wrote engine management software to detect when an emissions test (carried out by a 3rd party) was being done and adjust the fuel map accordingly - My point being that even with a 3rd party organization doing verification of standards - it is possible to game the system.

4. The contracting out of Speed Camera operation in nothing new. They've been doing it since day one of speed camera operations. They were never (seriously) questioned during those times.

I'd be interested to read the exact details of this prior contracting out - I suspect it would be private contractors under the direct control of a Government agency which is NOT the same as a Private company contracting to a government agency - different lines of reporting, no direct access.

NO. It does not. As I have stated ... it is not possible.

Okay then - without the contractor taking a reading and a picture - how does the system generate a Ticket?

Oh? It doesn't? Sounds like a Causal relationship to me....

The entire system then hinges on an accurate reading and a picture which is then passed on. This isn't like the UK double-picture system where the Radar reading is backed up by the distance travelled by the car - the system is entirely dependent on accurate data from a single source.

And if that single source is inaccurate...

You do make it hard for yourself ...

Well, I bought one of the fastest machines I could find....

Speed camera operators enforce NOTHING. They merely provide the information and proof for the LTSA to enforce legislation. And in the past ... such contractors have done a bloody good job of doing that. You probably got a ticket through a contractors efforts.

I hope you thanked him ...

That is semantics and you know it - Without the camera operator there is nothing for the NZTA to enforce ON. Thus the entire system (as above) is dependent on this lynch pin - remove it and no tickets get issued.

IMO you are talking shit ... and it's starting to smell.

Okay then - see the above Article about the Peninsula link Speed Camera - this is in Aus and for Months Citizens have been protesting that the camera was inaccurate - The investigation into the camera is still ongoing (this is just with a Government Dept running the show)

Now add a private company who likely gets either a commission or bonus that is tied to the number of tickets - you've added an extra layer of red tape and more importantly one that may have a vested interest in delaying/obfuscating as much as possible in order to protect a revenue stream.

Good news is .. I've stopped trying to understand you.

So many Snarky comments, so little time.

Now I'm just poking fun at you whenever I can ... and most has gone over your head.

Are you short or did you duck ...

It's a matter of perspective, when you are a long way off the point, I can see why you might be confused.

[swbarnett]

If I was to break into your house and steal your tv .. that would be ok with you ... because I wasn't doing you any actual harm ... right .. ???

WTF? You don't consider depriving me of my lawful possessions to be harmful?

Simply breaking the speed limit does no harm to anyone.

But ... Fines for infringement of Land Transport Legislation ... is not based on the "Harm" one is doing to another. They are there in an attempt to simply reduce the injury and damage should an road accident occur.

That's the current buzz phrase. They started out saying that simply by speeding you were increasing your chances of having an accident; I don't hear that as much any more so maybe the contrary has finally been accepted by TPTB.

Reducing the speed of the overall population is like making all the cooks knives blunt; yes, less harm is done when you cut yourself but you're more likely to cut yourself in the first place.

[Drew]

Do contractors build better roads than what the Ministry of Works built?

Yes the technology has improved, so why do so many major roads have the seal peeling off?

Because traffic levels have gone up in weight and numbers. The technology of tar hasn't charneed much.

[Swoop]

Ever since the State Owned Enterprises Act of 1986, the New Zealand Government has gone quite a way down the corporatisation and privatisation route and the Serco debacle is only one of many actions.

Given the bid for more cost savings, it's highly likely more privatisation and remodeling is in the pipeline.

The move away from the State being involved, started with "State Owned Enterprises" being carved off to (potentially) make a few dollars. In reality it was a buffer for the politicians in Wellytown who were sick and tired of being found wanting when it came to performance of their specific portfolios.

The best case in point came from massive stupidity in the health sector and the Minister of Health being found responsible for things happening in local hospitals. Result: The "District Health Board" was invented to simply take the heat off of the Minister.


All that really caught on. Politicians became aware of having someone else to blame, was really good! The idea spread...

Added to this was the fact that the government didn't need to employ hordes of stroppy staff who went on strike regularly (railway unions, etc ...).

Do contractors build better roads than what the Ministry of Works built?

Yes the technology has improved, so why do so many major roads have the seal peeling off?

As per above, still made to a price but the contractor can be blamed for shoddy workmanship.

[Scuba_Steve]

They wont be asked to tar seal a road ... so we're safe there ..

But are you actually aware HOW the information from camera vans process the information gathered during their time "Parked" ... is then converted to due process of law with infringement notices issued ... you can not have an intelligent argument on (possibility of) falsification of work hours or any other required data.



1. The contractor will be using LTSA supplied and certified equipment.

2. The contractor will be trained to a certified level to meet a standard that would meet court criteria.

3. The information gathered by the certified "Camera" machine is sealed and (usually) downloaded into LTSA computers at the end of their work day. NO direct interference/alteration to that information (or machine programing) is possible.

5. VW supplied information on their own systems ... using their own programs. Programs designed to withhold relevant information ... giving a false result to data gathered.

4. The contracting out of Speed Camera operation in nothing new. They've been doing it since day one of speed camera operations. They were never (seriously) questioned during those times.



NO. It does not. As I have stated ... it is not possible.



You do make it hard for yourself ...



Speed camera operators enforce NOTHING. They merely provide the information and proof for the LTSA to enforce legislation. And in the past ... such contractors have done a bloody good job of doing that. You probably got a ticket through a contractors efforts.

I hope you thanked him ...



IMO you are talking shit ... and it's starting to smell.



Good news is .. I've stopped trying to understand you. Now I'm just poking fun at you whenever I can ... and most has gone over your head.

Are you short or did you duck ...

Holy shit you are delusional!
Some advise - "Don't get high off your own supply"

Because traffic levels have gone up in weight and numbers. The technology of tar hasn't charneed much.

Doesn't really explain how they can rip up a road in "meh" condition that's been there the past 2 decades, lay a new one down & have it fail to a condition much worse than the road they ripped up within a month or 2 tho does it

[Drew]

Holy shit you are delusional!
Some advise - "Don't get high off your own supply

Fuck you're full of shit.

Doesn't really explain how they can rip up a road in "meh" condition that's been there the past 2 decades, lay a new one down & have it fail to a condition much worse than the road they ripped up within a month or 2 tho does it

And that is the norm rather than the exception is it?

[Zedder]

The move away from the State being involved, started with "State Owned Enterprises" being carved off to (potentially) make a few dollars. .

The 1986 State Owned Enterprises Act was the precursor to all that, the process wouldn't have happened without it.

[Zedder]

Because traffic levels have gone up in weight and numbers. The technology of tar hasn't charneed much.

Yes. The most common form of shear instability of basecourses is due to traffic densification. This then leads to moisture ingress which accelerates road pavement failure.