2017 NZSBK Superbike Championship - on hold

**Doppleganger** · 26th September 2017, 10:38

He should never of been awarded points as was done on the day, he crashed out. no one complained about it until someone not even there on the day decided to change the points a week later.
No where does it say the whole field has to cross the line for it to be deemed a new lap in the race, the leader determines what lap the race is on not the last guy.
Tony had finished the lap Choppa crashed on and had done a fair portion of the next lap.
With due respect to Sloan sitting in the infield with a sore ankle for over a lap shouldn't score you any points.

Have the rules been modified so this doesn't happen again?

**Drew** · 26th September 2017, 10:45

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

He should never of been awarded points as was done on the day, he crashed out. no one complained about it until someone not even there on the day decided to change the points a week later.
No where does it say the whole field has to cross the line for it to be deemed a new lap in the race, the leader determines what lap the race is on not the last guy.
Tony had finished the lap Choppa crashed on and had done a fair portion of the next lap.
With due respect to Sloan sitting in the infield with a sore ankle for over a lap shouldn't score you any points.

Have the rules been modified so this doesn't happen again?

FIM and Dorna don't agree with you. But clearly you know better.

**scott411** · 26th September 2017, 10:46

Originally Posted by Drew

Cool. Find the lap that Sloan crossed the line in sixth place. Here's a tip, he didn't.

So the results are wrong.

If results can't be changed without a protest, how was Harris stripped of the title he had when he cheated?

if they took the results from the end of the lap 5, he would have been marked 6th because everyone else had completed another lap, so he was not lap scored that lap so ended up 6th, a lap less than the leaders, but the first of the riders to complete the lap before (if their had been other riders not crossed the finish flag in his class before the red flag came out,

and the Harris/Tuckerman incident was another bad look for MNZ, and since MNZ don\t have an online list of all champions, I dont know if it ever went past the point of a facebook post,

**Doppleganger** · 26th September 2017, 10:50

Originally Posted by Drew

FIM and Dorna don't agree with you. But clearly you know better.

got sand in your vagina or something?

I'm not being a smart ass just seeking some clarification here. Have the rules been changed to fix this or not, have they adopted FIM or Dorna ruling or not.
Ask yourself if a rider who crashes out is entitled to points? everywhere else in the world says no as far as I'm aware.
Even BSB wont let you start a a restarted race even on the bike you crashed on.

FFS have a piece of cake or whatever calms you down

**jellywrestler** · 26th September 2017, 10:53

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

a piece of cake

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm cake...

**Drew** · 26th September 2017, 10:54

Originally Posted by scott411

if they took the results from the end of the lap 5, he would have been marked 6th because everyone else had completed another lap, so he was not lap scored that lap so ended up 6th, a lap less than the leaders, but the first of the riders to complete the lap before (if their had been other riders not crossed the finish flag in his class before the red flag came out,

and the Harris/Tuckerman incident was another bad look for MNZ, and since MNZ don\t have an online list of all champions, I dont know if it ever went past the point of a facebook post,

So it's ok to give him some points he didn't score (according to your logic) bit not more?

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

got sand in your vagina or something?

I'm not being a smart ass just seeking some clarification here. Have the rules been changed to fix this or not, have they adopted FIM or Dorna ruling or not.
Ask yourself if a rider who crashes out is entitled to points? everywhere else in the world says no as far as I'm aware.
Even BSB wont let you start a a restarted race even on the bike you crashed on.

FFS have a piece of cake or whatever calms you down

Every organisation awards points to the whole field on a count back. It is to stop people being taken out.

**jellywrestler** · 26th September 2017, 10:54

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

vagina

mmmmmm vagina...

**Drew** · 26th September 2017, 10:55

Whether you agree with the rule or not is moot. Completely and utterly irrelevant.

It gets even worse when you hear what a total fuck up MNZ have made of the whole process.

**jellywrestler** · 26th September 2017, 11:01

one only hopes that those directly involved in this, and those indirectly involved take a good look at the rulebook and tidy up rules that aren't clearly worded.
like the jump start rule, 'a black board must be displayed' it didn't say where or to who, could've been in a cafe in auckland for all we know.... here's the new rule, sorted.

14.3b A time penalty of 20 seconds to apply to any rider jumping the start, this
penalty to be added at the end of the race. The offending rider is to be
notified of the penalty within 30 minutes of the race/part race using a
Competitor Infringement Notice.

and that the riders actually familiarise themselves with the rules too, and if they have doubts on the wording ask for clarification from the road race commisioner, or a steward, this way things will get tidied.
Sadly outside of this incident I personally saw three incidents by our top three superbike riders somewhere over the season where they did not know common rules.

**scott411** · 26th September 2017, 11:05

Originally Posted by Drew

So it's ok to give him some points he didn't score (according to your logic) bit not more?

What i feel, and what the rules allow for is totally different, i don't think you should get any points for crashing out of a race and causing a red flag,

if you are used to racing Cross Countries then what i am explaining makes a bit more sense, (in cross countries the finish flag comes out at a time limit, no matter who is next over the line)
the finish line is the recording of every lap, just because you cross the line on lap 4 in first, does not mean you are first in a race, when the red flag came out on lap 6 all the riders that completed lap 5 were ahead of Choppa as they had completed the lap 5, he had not, since under the current rule we do not exclude the fallen rider, he was 6th in the race, even tho he had never passed the line in 6th, 5 riders had done 5 laps, he had done 4,

**Doppleganger** · 26th September 2017, 11:06

Originally Posted by Drew

Whether you agree with the rule or not is moot. Completely and utterly irrelevant.

It gets even worse when you hear what a total fuck up MNZ have made of the whole process.

Should never of been a process. Like I said everyone went away from the meeting happy (wrong word but you know what I mean)
It didn't turn to shit until a know it all got involved over a week later.

The HD race was run according to the rule book (cant have more than one re-start) so is irrelevant.

Drew - are the rules fixed now? how many restarts to a race before the allotted distance %
Can the cause of a red flag score points/re-start?

I'll try and look them up myself in the meantime

**Drew** · 26th September 2017, 11:10

Originally Posted by scott411

What i feel, and what the rules allow for is totally different, i don't think you should get any points for crashing out of a race and causing a red flag,

if you are used to racing Cross Countries then what i am explaining makes a bit more sense, (in cross countries the finish flag comes out at a time limit, no matter who is next over the line)
the finish line is the recording of every lap, just because you cross the line on lap 4 in first, does not mean you are first in a race, when the red flag came out on lap 6 all the riders that completed lap 5 were ahead of Choppa as they had completed the lap 5, he had not, since under the current rule we do not exclude the fallen rider, he was 6th in the race, even tho he had never passed the line in 6th, 5 riders had done 5 laps, he had done 4,

So everyone who hadn't crossed the line got points for sixth?

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

Should never of been a process. Like I said everyone went away from the meeting happy (wrong word but you know what I mean)
It didn't turn to shit until a know it all got involved over a week later.

The HD race was run according to the rule book (cant have more than one re-start) so is irrelevant.

Drew - are the rules fixed now? how many restarts to a race before the allotted distance %
Can the cause of a red flag score points/re-start?

I'll try and look them up myself in the meantime

The restart rule is altered to read that 65% of a race must be completed. The fucking MNZ official at the hearing gave that as evidence for this appeal. How inept is this cunt if he can't read and also refers to the wrong rulebook?

**CHOPPA** · 26th September 2017, 11:14

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

Good reply Choppa, but wasn't Tony on lap 7 when the red flag came out meaning the results go back a lap to lap 6 where he crossed the finish line in first etc and you crashed on lap 5 meaning you couldn't have been included anyway?

Tony was on lap 6, I crashed lap 5. It was reported a little incorrectly in the media but yeah im either first or dnf not 6th.

The rules state race goes to previous lap and then you use part A or B and that part of the rule further clarifies the "complete lap" wording.

The rules have been changed for 2018 which do seem to clearly state that the number pf laps is determined by the lead rider however when I questioned the commissioner he confirmed it meant the complete lap which is a little worrying...

**jellywrestler** · 26th September 2017, 11:24

[QUOTE=Doppleganger;1131064651]
Can the cause of a red flag score points/re-start?

/QUOTE]

Whatever happens it is not possible, nor fair, to apply a blame to anyone for 'causing' a red flag and have it workable in every incident.
We do not have enough qualified, impartial eyes, capable of watching every move of every individual rider on every corner or straight all the time, nor do they have the resources to pull everyone in , check everyone's on board footage etc , make a judgement in time for a restart.
if you're out you're out