2017 Proposed Bucket Rule Changes.

[TZ350]

Until 2027 when I make my return.

Then I'll propose all MX engines open mods. . . but they must run on knobbly tyres.

Buckets ... 2027 post apocalypse ... F4 ... MX85 racing motorcycle.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Really?????

Yes, really.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Buckets ... 2027 post apocalypse ... F4 ... MX85 racing motorcycle.

It'll be the death of us all!

[F5 Dave]

With a bit of luck. Looks like a foul stroke.

[denefoster]

As someone somewhat new, and having built two new buckets in the last year, one being a project TF125 and the last one being one of the only AM6s to show up for sale in a long ass time.

Would definitely have gone the MX85 route if i could have, even just getting an intake for a TF that will take a standard spigot mount carb meant CAD + engineering shop. Both super pricey and not easy if you don't have the skills, and that's about where my skills end. Being able to buy off the shelf parts for the AM6 is an amazing experience compared to the TF.

Acquiring an RG/RS barrel, and measuring/machining adapters etc is great if you've got a shop, an encyclopaedic knowledge of "vintage" parts and the tools otherwise it's a huge bill and not really different than just buying an off the shelf part.

The modern 4 stoke options ain't cheap either. R15s, even crashed sell for 3k minimum, FXRs while mostly available are pretty long in the tooth and not all that cheap. Grom ? GXSR150 ? ETX150 ?

I do think a separate class is stupid, doubtful a stock 85/ignition/carb would come in and toast every other bike in F4, make'm stock and toss them in with the rest imo.

[Autech]

Anyone want to crunch some numbers and work out roughly how much a super unmodified would cost to build vs a competitive fxr?
I've already sent feedback to mnz against the creation of the class as I think buckets are already diverse enough with the current rules. That said if it were to dramatically reduce the build costs of a bucket it would be worth looking into with more refining in the future, all in the interests of building a level playing field.


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[Grumph]

Anyone want to crunch some numbers and work out roughly how much a super unmodified would cost to build vs a competitive fxr?
I've already sent feedback to mnz against the creation of the class as I think buckets are already diverse enough with the current rules. That said if it were to dramatically reduce the build costs of a bucket it would be worth looking into with more refining in the future, all in the interests of building a level playing field.


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Depends what you mean by a level playing field...If it's economic, I've never seen a rule limiting what you can spend on a bike.
If it's performance, move to a one - make series. Still not level though as abilities vary....

Buckets was never about a level playing field, but it was about doing more with less by using your brain and skills.

It's pretty much the only class left where this is still the main thrust.

[husaberg]

Depends what you mean by a level playing field...If it's economic, I've never seen a rule limiting what you can spend on a bike.
If it's performance, move to a one - make series. Still not level though as abilities vary....

Buckets was never about a level playing field, but it was about doing more with less by using your brain and skills.

It's pretty much the only class left where this is still the main thrust.

Its would be pretty hard for an amateur kiwi to compete with KTM R&D teams resources.
I have seen the insides and those late KTM85 and 105's are pretty much a Reed valve GP bike.

[TALLIS]

Am6 modified is = to MX85s, if not, better. Not that hard to find on overseas if you want 1. Easier to get the bits for, already excepted in the rules apparently. So a rule change is really pointless. Keeping it "non comp" is what buckets is.

[Tard]

...and...if the rules are to remain the same i.e. 'non-competition' I believe that makes the new Suzuki GSX-R150 (for the Suzuki Asian Challenge series) ineligible for F4?

[Grumph]

...and...if the rules are to remain the same i.e. 'non-competition' I believe that makes the new Suzuki GSX-R150 (for the Suzuki Asian Challenge series) ineligible for F4?

Doubtful - remember the CBR150's had an international series too in which people like Avalon came to notice....But the road versions are perfectly acceptable in F4.
A GSXR150 bought straight out of that series - probably ineligible. But a bike sold as a road bike ? I see no problems.

[Autech]

Depends what you mean by a level playing field...If it's economic, I've never seen a rule limiting what you can spend on a bike.
If it's performance, move to a one - make series. Still not level though as abilities vary....

Buckets was never about a level playing field, but it was about doing more with less by using your brain and skills.

It's pretty much the only class left where this is still the main thrust.

100% right. This 85MX engine series would turn into more of a Moto2 style class where the chassis is the factor, providing all 85s are built equal that is. Going off how I fell asleep during the Moto2 race this morning I'm not sure it's the correct format.

Its would be pretty hard for an amateur kiwi to compete with KTM R&D teams resources.
I have seen the insides and those late KTM85 and 105's are pretty much a Reed valve GP bike.

I'd still pitch my Waldo FXR against any 85cc MX engine, it may lack a bit in peak power but she's got a stack of mid range .
The point I was getting at was my engine cost around 3k to purchase and build, not exactly a cheap affair if a 85 MX engine costs a lot less and could give it a run for a money. But you don't NEED to spend that kind of coin for a bucket I guess so I've just answered my own question lol.

Ignore me, everyone else does.

Going forward though the FXR engines are getting few and far between (every time I've tried to purchase a spare it's been snaffled up).
Is there a chance that we may end up having to go to something different if we blow them all up?

[FastFred]

Honda Suzuki and Yamaha all offer 150cc sports bikes. I expect there will be plenty of good 4T Bucket racers available for the next few years.

[Autech]

Honda Suzuki and Yamaha all offer 150cc sports bikes. I expect there will be plenty of good 4T Bucket racers available for the next few years.

Plus fuel injection which makes me moist


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[F5 Dave]

Container from Indonesia or it's a bit pointless.

There's a chapter oop norf who built a bucket from a RM80 chassis and put a RG150 bottom end in it. Cut down suspension 17" wheels. You'd never know and it looks quite useful. Course he's had no end of shagging around trying to get sleeved motor sorted.

Cheap blown RM. Rebuild using pattern parts mxparts.co.nz
bit of wheel lacing, suspension spacers, new pegs tailpiece. 3k build entirely feasible.