New crash study.

[Akzle]

]. I am sick to death of people that think there's only one way to skin a cat.

... with a motorbike?

[swbarnett]

... with a motorbike?

I'm sure it can be done.

Does conjure up a rather gruesome image. More like "squeeze the cat out of it's skin".

[Akzle]

on some bends while your bike can remain on the right side of the road your body lean angle can actually have your body over the centre line.

well there's your problem. we normally ride on the left in this country.

[caseye]

I mean "correct" if you have difficulty interpreting what I was getting at.

Just go!
Ah shit, message too short.
It's all I wanted to say.
Well I guess I could have couched it better.
Fuck off you moronic, self effacing unconditionally wrong every fucking time, idiot! Whoops's. No. SW was right, it got one thing about cornering right, just one of the many aspects that prevent reasonably sane riders from falling off that is.
I wonder if that was long enough.

[Zedder]

Just go!
Ah shit, message too short.
It's all I wanted to say.
Well I guess I could have couched it better.
Fuck off you moronic, self effacing unconditionally wrong every fucking time, idiot! Whoops's. No. JW was right, it got one thing about cornering right, just one of the many aspects that prevent reasonably sane riders from falling off that is.
I wonder if that was long enough.

IMHO, self effacing would not be the best description as it means: not claiming attention for oneself, shy and modest. I would suggest, narcisstic plus add in, heap of parrot droppings (courtesy of Monty Python). The rest is fine apart from JW who I believe you mean to be swbarnett.

[swbarnett]

I think we must be thinking of different types on corner here and from what you have been saying

No, we're not.

I get the impression you are thinking of corners that you can see all the way through

See, now this is why I think you just don't get it. I'm talking about ALL corners, blind or otherwise, left-hand or right-hand, uphill or down, tight or sweeping. I'm talking about maximising your forward visibility by picking the best line to do so; this will allow a higher speed at which you can stop in that visibility or execute an avoidance manoeuvre.

[Scuba_Steve]

So there we go the biggest factor in crashes is going too slow

[Bass]

See, now this is why I think you just don't get it. I'm talking about ALL corners, blind or otherwise, left-hand or right-hand, uphill or down, tight or sweeping. I'm talking about maximising your forward visibility by picking the best line to do so; this will allow a higher speed at which you can stop in that visibility or execute an avoidance manoeuvre.

A few eons back, Drew wrote something that I'd long felt was true but never had the confidence (experience) to express.
He said, "the safest way round a corner is not the fastest", or words to that effect. It's a natural consequence of maximising your view around the corner that you reduce the minimum radius that you must negotiate.

[Mike.Gayner]

These threads seriously just go around in circles. Yawn.

[swbarnett]

But often picking your line to get maximum visibility around a corner requires a "centre line hug" and I have seen videos of guys doing it. If someone else comes around the corner a bit over the centre line you will get cleaned up.

Quite wrong. Yes, you start wide; on a left-hander this means that you're right next to the centre line (assuming there's no on-coming traffic in the road you can see now). This gives you greater visibility and, therefore, more time to react if there is traffic approaching. Anyone coming around the corner towards you that's over the line is easily avoided. If you stick to the other side of your lane you'll have bugger all time to react (no matter how slow you're going) if a hazard appears in front of you.

The pictures below show what I'm talking about. They're taken from the "police rider's handbook to better motorcycling" (yes, I know you don't like the UK police but, believe it or not, they do know what they're doing).

[R650R]

The pictures below show what I'm talking about. They're taken from the "police rider's handbook to better motorcycling" (yes, I know you don't like the UK police but, believe it or not, they do know what they're doing).

One day i'm going to survey and measure this scenario, still think while its good roadcraft for a variety of reasons the stated benefit of seeing further is overstated.
Lets pretend that pic is close enought o being to scale. On a tight bend like that a sensible approach speed would be say 50km/h which is 13.88m/sec.
Now in the right hand turn (for the bike) the car is only just out of view, withen say another 0.5m of the car travelling foward which is 0.0362 of a second the cars right headlamp will be visible (you dont need to see the whole car to know that avehicle is oncoming. Given average reaction time is say 0.2 sec its a negligble beenfit for even the sharpest of minds.
Never mind that in both pics the car is still on its own side of road so not even a hazard to be needing to see early.
Also in the above scenario of a 'blind ' corner one should be travelling at a speed to stop in the length of visible clear lane ahead anyway, a basis safety 101 concepts that overrules any other consideration to start with.
In the left hand turn (for the bike) the car is only 1 metre of travel from being visible, again a negligble amount even if we double the numbers from earlier.
The Police may know what they are doing when it comes to law enforcement but it appears basic trigonometry, maths and real world precticaslity is ignored when it comes to 'better motorcycling'.....
Ana ctual real benefit thast could be realised is seeing debri or livestock in ones own lane but even then a slight reduction in speed (and come on thats their fav chorus) would actual derive a much greater safety benefit.

[Jeff Sichoe]

best way to corner quicker is to get a faster bike so you can pin it out of the curve

[pritch]

But often picking your line to get maximum visibility around a corner requires a "centre line hug" and I have seen videos of guys doing it. If someone else comes around the corner a bit over the centre line you will get cleaned up.

Just for once I find myself in complete agreement with Cassina. (I think I'd better have a lie down.)
So in that instance of a blind l/h bend you stay a bit to the left of centre at entry. Just as in a blind r/h bend you might stay a bit short of the white line so that your head stays on your own side of the line.

Every corner is different, each requires its own approach.

It is, however no particularly great credit to her that she managed to figure this out; that's beginner level stuff.

[Viking01]

Now that I think about it is quite likely I do ride like that anyway but more so perhaps on tight twisty roads where you really have to be on/near the centre line to see where you are going. I also pick lines where I know I am not going to overcook the corner. So generally speaking I ride possibly in between the 2 extremes in your diagram. Unlike you guys though I do not see cornering as something I feel I would like to get faster at doing and as I said the accident statistics on bends prove thats not a good idea to aspire towards.

Having watched this thread - and others in the past, I think we can safely say that your latest post above confirms that you're absolutely clueless about safe cornering.

And more so, I don't think you even know which lines you yourself are actually taking into corners.

Because if you did "know the lines you use", you would realise that the preceding diagram shows "safe" lines for road riding (ignore track riding)
- and -
you wouldn't be making clueless comments like:
-"it is quite likely I do ride like that anyway"
-"I also pick lines where I am not going to overcook the corner"
-"generally speaking, I ride possibly in between the 2 extremes"

Further:

Many of the respondents have tried to put aside corner 'entry speed' component in order simply to focus on discussion of safe positioning. They were not saying that appropriate corner 'entry speed' wasn't important, nor were they saying they were trying to go quicker around bends. Leave that out of the positioning discussion.

What they were trying to get into your head were points like:
-appropriate position will give you the opportunity to see ongoing traffic earlier, and allow you to take evasive action slightly sooner (if needed)
-appropriate position could help improve your chances of getting around a corner safely if you do happen to have come in with slightly too much entry speed.

I don't care how many years you have been riding for. You seriously need to get some advanced rider training, and to read some decent books on motorcycle handling. Not only could you end up riding more safely, maybe you'd realise how clueless your comments on some of these threads have been.

If however you're trolling, then please ignore my comments, as you're doing an absolutely splendid job.

Cheers

[pritch]

The big negative I felt with it though was braking in that it felt like it had no back brake which would see you flipping it possibly in an emergency stop.

Could somebody please translate this into English?