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Thread: Diavel suspension is too firm

  1. #16
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    20th June 2011 - 20:27
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    Measure the sag yourself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjGgq1z9zbo

    Sounds like you are blasting through the travel but sag will tell you this. Comp and rebound all the way out may be making it worse.

    Let us know the sag numbers.

  2. #17
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    25th May 2010 - 13:46
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    I tried settings at "sport" and really there's not much in it and it's also harsh. I thought maybe with settings at soft end it was bottoming out but still the same whether i set for soft or set for hard.

    BTW I should point out I've owned a few bikes and dirt bikes so I understand how to make changes on suspension. Ie rebound damping = speed of return, softer (more turns counter) meaning rebounds faster and sits higher in the stroke where the suspension is generally softer.

    I measured rider sag when I got home at 20mm without gear so with gear and bag it's prob 23mm. Screaming kids to get to bed so no time to kit up or screaming wife as well

    This was with rear preload at 25 clicks so about half way on adjuster which is "sport" setting per manual. I think I should have researched more and would have been nice if dealer told a good returning customer that it will be firmer and not as comfortable on the back roads as the Monster... but I guess that's what makes me a good customer!!!

    Research seems to point to an ohlins as the solution so there goes my savings for buying on a runout special.

  3. #18
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    As SVBoy said, contact Robert Taylor. He may well be able to sort this much cheaper than a new Ohlins.

  4. #19
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    Yep I'm gonna call Robert Taylor tomorrow and see what he reckons is the best way to go. It's a great bike so I only have to get the ride compliant over bumps and take away most of the jarring to get the best out of it.

  5. #20
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    nobody reply to that twat please

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ellipsis View Post
    nobody reply to that twat please
    Hey mate I only put it out there to see if others had found the same thing with this bike and what solutions they had come up with. Thanks to those who have provided some useful posts and suggestions.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamjam View Post
    Hey mate I only put it out there to see if others had found the same thing with this bike and what solutions they had come up with. Thanks to those who have provided some useful posts and suggestions.
    Pretty sure he meant Cassina, not you.

    Let us know how you get on with RT.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by nzspokes View Post
    Pretty sure he meant Cassina, not you.
    ...yeah...but don't encourage any more wank from it...

  9. #24
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    It's been said about 3 times already in this thread but the message still slides by.
    Unless the bike has a rising rate linkage, adjusting the preload has NO effect on suspension stiffness. It only adjusts the ride height.
    It's purpose is to keep the suspension in its "sweet" range with varying loads aboard.

    If the bike does have a rising rate linkage, the (badly named) preload adjustment has exactly the reverse effect to what would be instinctively expected.

    The O.P. appears to have the beginnings of a grasp on this but hasn't quite thought it right through yet. No-one has mentioned tyre pressures either.
    I may not be as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I always was.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bass View Post
    It's been said about 3 times already in this thread but the message still slides by.
    Unless the bike has a rising rate linkage, adjusting the preload has NO effect on suspension stiffness. It only adjusts the ride height.
    It's purpose is to keep the suspension in its "sweet" range with varying loads aboard.

    .
    That's not actually quite correct. In theory, it should be, but in practice, it's not. Preload does have an effect on roughly the first third of the suspension movement. Try a moto-x bike with absolutely no sag at all, vs one with 100mm of sag. The diff is huge.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crasherfromwayback View Post
    That's not actually quite correct. In theory, it should be, but in practice, it's not. Preload does have an effect on roughly the first third of the suspension movement. Try a moto-x bike with absolutely no sag at all, vs one with 100mm of sag. The diff is huge.
    But an MX bike will have a linkage which is likely highly rising rate. KTM graphs for their old 640 Adventure showed suspension travel to wheel travel relativity that went from 0.9 when extended to over 4 when compressed. So you would expect the suspension to appear to harden up dramatically from no sag to 100 mm.

    Note what I said here - you backed off the preload (more sag) but the suspension appeared to harden up because the damper was travelling faster. Further, it's all damper effect - the spring has nothing to do with it. Move the wheel very slowly in both positions so the damper effect is nil and you will see no difference between them.

    Like I said, the point of preload is to put the suspension into its sweet spot
    I may not be as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I always was.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bass View Post
    But an MX bike with will have a linkage which is likely highly rising rate. KTM graphs for their old 640 Adventure showed suspension travel to wheel travel relativity that went from 0.9 when extended to over 4 when compressed. So you would expect the suspension to harden up dramatically from no sag to 100 mm.
    Doesn't actually matter what type of rear suspension you have. My twin shock RM400T VMX bike is exactly the same. if it has absolutely no sag at all, it's a completely diff bike to one with the correct amount of sag. So saying preload has no effect on the suspension is not factually correct.

  13. #28
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    25th May 2010 - 13:46
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    Bass has a good point, when i back off the preload it does get firmer. On another forum the guys were saying wind the preload up to max (as high as it goes) and this is as best they can get it. I tried that and indead the suspension feels like it's working more and being more compliant when the preload is up at maximum. To compensate you then soften comp and rebound to their "softest" settings. Despite this being the best I could get it, it was still harsh and unforgiving on any little bump in the road.

    I am a confident rider (but I wouldn't say advanced rider because I don't race) and the lack of compliance and skipping on a bumpy corner is tolerable to me in the dry but I suspect it will be dangerous and butt clenching in the wet. That aswell as the lack of comfort factor and the fact I changed from the Monster 1200 to the Diavel to get more upright because of a neck injury (cart wheeled a dirt bike) that was being aggravated by the riding position so i really don't need my neck being jolted constantly too.

    BTW I am running 36/36 psi front/rear cold. I could go lower to say 34 at the expense of squaring the rear on the motorway.

    To this end I have called Robert Taylor and he knows exactly the problem and said he's installed Ohlins in many many Diavels to fix this issue and make the bike good for our roads. So more stock is expected in a few weeks and then I'll head down to New Plymouth and get it fitted by the experts

    I have been reading the Diavel forum and so many people have said the bikes are too firm and harsh and fitting an Ohlins has transformed the bike's suspension to awesome.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crasherfromwayback View Post
    Doesn't actually matter what type of rear suspension you have. My twin shock RM400T VMX bike is exactly the same. if it has absolutely no sag at all, it's a completely diff bike to one with the correct amount of sag. So saying preload has no effect on the suspension is not factually correct.
    Pete, firstly, I have to admit that I'm not familiar with the model, but if the shocks are leaned forward significantly, then that's the way the first rising rates were done.

    Secondly, I never said it had no effect on the suspension - I said that in the absence of rising rate, it had no effect on the suspension stiffness (which is what this thread is all about). I stand by that.

    I am not an MX'r in any way shape or form, but I expect that big changes to the rear end ride height would markedly affect the handling
    I may not be as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I always was.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamjam View Post

    BTW I am running 36/36 psi front/rear cold. I could go lower to say 34 at the expense of squaring the rear on the motorway.


    I have been reading the Diavel forum and so many people have said the bikes are too firm and harsh and fitting an Ohlins has transformed the bike's suspension to awesome.
    Those tyre pressures don't seem excessive to me and am pleased to hear you have a solution, albeit an expensive one.
    I may not be as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I always was.

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