The Future of Work

[seattle smitty]

Maybe people need to start thinking about this before having kids in the first place that their kids will likely face unemployment/poverty/homelessness unlike any generation before. Its already started with homes being no longer affordable for most young people and payrates for many are poor. There is a saying that NZ has the highest qualified burger flippers in the world due to there no longer being the number of career opportunities for graduates there used to be.

Some who write on this subject try to comfort us with the reasonable-sounding assertion that at least there will always be a need for humans to do repair work, plumbing, and so forth. Well maybe, but in the States, professional welders' websites I visit have been noting that for some years now we have been told that there is and will continue to be a shortage of welders, and that not enough young guys are being trained, etc., etc., . . . but we also see that welding pay rates have not gone up at all.

[Ocean1]

Some who write on this subject try to comfort us with the reasonable-sounding assertion that at least there will always be a need for humans to do repair work, plumbing, and so forth. Well maybe, but in the States, professional welders' websites I visit have been noting that for some years now we have been told that there is and will continue to be a shortage of welders, and that not enough young guys are being trained, etc., etc., . . . but we also see that welding pay rates have not gone up at all.

Maybe there's just a lag between the scarcity and the price?

We saw a similar thing here when the local govt agencies, (ministry of works, railways, electricity depts) stopped training apprentices. They'd noticed that the wee bastards all buggered off for better money or an overseas trip as soon as they were out of their time, so the thought was that if private enterprise needed them then they could bear the cost of training them.

Didn't happen. For the better part of two decades there were far fewer new tradesmen made in NZ. Eventually the shortage became obvious and more than a little crippling and private enterprise got together with a few other regional commercial entities to spread the cost around some and started training more. The result of all of the above was generation long holes in several national skill sets across the whole nation.

I don't think it's quite that simple, there was always some cultural disincentive associated with the trades, something you encouraged someone to get into if they'd failed at school or obviously weren't going to make anything better of their lives. Maybe that perception contributed to the generally low price for tradesmen, then and now, regardless of commercial value. And I can't really complain, as one of the last of the govt trained apprentices I've had some minor advantages later in life from that shortage of senior techies.

Nonetheless, you're right, when it comes to plain, unattractive labour skills it seems scarcity doesn't dictate price as much as it does at a more esoteric, "professional" level. And now that I think about it the public funding of tertiary education may have had an influence on the choice between an apprenticeship and a BA. Probably still does.

[Voltaire]

I was the second to last year of Post Office Apprentices and even as a tradesman earned less than office workers of the time.

I buggered off overseas to AU and straight off the plane got paid 40% more and a couple of years later landed in the UK and

slotted into Thatchers Britain by becoming semi self employed as a contractor.

Trades were viewed as something you did if you were not smart enough to go to uni, I liked woodwork and metalwork at

school but the Secondary School I went to after Intermediate was academic focused.

One thing I have noticed is that the ticketed trades like electrical and plumbing pay better than the ones that require no ticket

and you don't end up with a student loan.

I suspect a lot of the so called Degrees on offer are more focused around the suppliers of them than the student.

[Brian d marge]

I'm too good looking to work

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[swarfie]

I started my apprenticeship in '77 and was one of 7 apprentices taken on by the company. The company took on loads of apprentices every year for a few years then it started to dwindle. Since the late 80's every year the number of apprentices has reduced, to the stage where the last one we took on was 7 years ago (and he's left for greener fields) and it doesn't look like we'll be replacing him any time soon. The one before him is still here and is probably about 7 years out of his time now.

My point is that even social minded companies that used to supply trades-people to the entire industry in NZ (and for the most part, overseas) don't anymore. It grinds me a bit to hear the politicians waffling on about the need for more trades-people when they are the ones who, by mismanaging the apprenticeship schemes, shagged the system in the first place.

I left for a bit over a year 18 months after my apprenticeship finished and came back and have been back for 35 years...unheard of in todays climate, and I have nearly 40 years service with the same place. I'm 58 and still enjoy the job (must be okay at it as the company hasn't made me redundant...yet). It's comfortable but I'm never going to get rich being a tradee and working for someone else...or while the guvinmunt sees fit to tax me like they do and give it to some lazy phuck.

[Akzle]

I started my apprenticeship in '77 and was one of 7 apprentices taken on by the company. The company took on loads of apprentices every year for a few years then it started to dwindle. Since the late 80's every year the number of apprentices has reduced, to the stage where the last one we took on was 7 years ago (and he's left for greener fields) and it doesn't look like we'll be replacing him any time soon. The one before him is still here and is probably about 7 years out of his time now.

My point is that even social minded companies that used to supply trades-people to the entire industry in NZ (and for the most part, overseas) don't anymore. It grinds me a bit to hear the politicians waffling on about the need for more trades-people when they are the ones who, by mismanaging the apprenticeship schemes, shagged the system in the first place.

I left for a bit over a year 18 months after my apprenticeship finished and came back and have been back for 35 years...unheard of in todays climate, and I have nearly 40 years service with the same place. I'm 58 and still enjoy the job (must be okay at it as the company hasn't made me redundant...yet). It's comfortable but I'm never going to get rich being a tradee and working for someone else...or while the guvinmunt sees fit to tax me like they do and give it to some lazy phuck.

you seem to moan about the government a lot. you should vote about it.

[swarfie]

you seem to moan about the government a lot. you should vote about it.

Hook, line and sinker...if the glove fits...

[Motu]

I left my job 3 months out of my time and before I was qualified, ended up going back to work for him 4 or 5 times, I can't even remember, ended up 10 years later in charge of the place. I never asked for my job back, it was always offered - ''Hey, we're a bit snowed under, can you give us a few days to clear it ?''....''**** is having 3 weeks off, can you cover for him?'' A year later I'd leave again. It's the 3rd time I've worked for my current employeer...asked back every time.

We have 3 tradesmen and 2 apprentices, and now a work experience once a week. Can't say we don't train the next lot.

[Ocean1]

We have 3 tradesmen and 2 apprentices, and now a work experience once a week. Can't say we don't train the next lot.

Are we still allowed to chuck them in the creek for insubordination?

Or breathing?

[Motu]

They have both lost their license in the past, and got work licenses. The reason I left my job the first time was because I lost my license...stuff walking to work and working on cars without being able to thrash the shit out of them.

[Zedder]

The fourth industrial revolution:http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=11863989

[Brian d marge]

The fourth industrial revolution:http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=11863989

Andrew little throwing that term around , straight out of America that one. last time it was user pays and Soe, and look at the mess that made

[mashman]

Andrew little throwing that term around , straight out of America that one. last time it was user pays and Soe, and look at the mess that made

Jobs sells.

[Gremlin]

The problem with IT as a career is that you need to be a mathmatical wizard to get to the top in it and not everyone is that way inclined. Skills learnt can date very quickly in that industry too.

Well I'm not at the top yet, but calculus makes no sense whatsoever to me. Doesn't stop me from managing client networks...

And more to the point, it will be done in Vietnam, Phillipines or India. Since there is no physical product, it can and is being offshored to a cheaper location. What makes you think it will be done here, and if it is, then a skilled immigrant visa and an Indian to go...

Yes and no. Having just been dealing with HPE in India, 90% of their calls didn't get through to me, shit service. Bounced around through loops of questions, and the server with issues had had almost every component replaced. They were gearing up to replace a core component, until I tried a service pack for it, and it *touch wood* seems to have fixed it after a few days of reliability. They would have kept replacing components, or the entire server simply because the system wasn't stable nor could they diagnose from the logs.

But... pay peanuts... get monkeys.

[Voltaire]

I hate when my PC at works has issues as means " Raising a Ticket" and dealing with India.
Encourages me to try and fix it myself which involved drawing on others experience.... quote social really and time wasting....or as I see it networking and leveraging internal capabilities

As they have got rid of the IT department the next one will be 'self build' where it arrives in a box and you have to set it up yourself dealing with India.
From what I have seen of that can take days and you can involve all you workmates.