Go Pros create unsafe riders

[T.W.R]

It's the discretionary axe & where to use it.
Surely in that sort of situation it's an indication that the pupil needs some further precautionary advice and an opportunity for more direct tutoring.
The system is the system can't change that in a hurry but it's doesn't mean that each step has to be taken in the shortest time possible and the early steps are where it's best to iron out the kinks.

[rastuscat]

It's the discretionary axe & where to use it.
Surely in that sort of situation it's an indication that the pupil needs some further precautionary advice and an opportunity for more direct tutoring..

Worry not. The best advice I gave him is to ride in a manner that causes your footage to be incident free.

I almost feel as if cameras make things worse.

[T.W.R]

Worry not. The best advice I gave him is to ride in a manner that causes your footage to be incident free.

I almost feel as if cameras make things worse.

Doesn't worry me, advice & education are upto the individual to take on board
In some situations the camera could be used to advantage as an educational tool

[MVnut]

It's the discretionary axe & where to use it.
Surely in that sort of situation it's an indication that the pupil needs some further precautionary advice and an opportunity for more direct tutoring.
The system is the system can't change that in a hurry but it's doesn't mean that each step has to be taken in the shortest time possible and the early steps are where it's best to iron out the kinks.

I presume you are in no way suggesting Rastus should have failed that applicant. Having said that a fairly good percentage of riders I've seen (particularly in the last 15 years or so) should stay away from 2 wheels.....they simply have no fucking idea about courtesy or self preservation, 2 important aspects of riding. Skill level can be raised so ongoing training is good, whether you train yourself or get help. Just do it right please. Same ideas apply to those guys who 'require' their girlfriends to ride. Why why why the fuck would you do that? If someone wants to learn that's great, don't push anyone into it. I love bikes as much as anyone and have never asked anyone if I could teach them to ride....but I have taught many that asked me. That is the difference. And Go Pros....good and bad depends how and why . I like the idea but in practice too many fuckwits just want to film shit they should be avoiding anyway. Am I slow on the road?? Only I know the answer....I prefer to think I am safe

[T.W.R]

I presume you are in no way suggesting Rastus should have failed that applicant. Having said that a fairly good percentage of riders I've seen (particularly in the last 15 years or so) should stay away from 2 wheels.....they simply have no fucking idea about courtesy or self preservation, 2 important aspects of riding. Skill level can be raised so ongoing training is good, whether you train yourself or get help. Just do it right please. Same ideas apply to those guys who 'require' their girlfriends to ride. Why why why the fuck would you do that? If someone wants to learn that's great, don't push anyone into it. I love bikes as much as anyone and have never asked anyone if I could teach them to ride....but I have taught many that asked me. That is the difference. And Go Pros....good and bad depends how and why . I like the idea but in practice too many fuckwits just want to film shit they should be avoiding anyway. Am I slow on the road?? Only I know the answer....I prefer to think I am safe

Presumption is the mother of all fuck ups.....the suggestion was if something is seen that could be improved strike while the iron is hot...it's easy to adjust something early rather than try and change an ingrained bad habit. It's a training school, the pupils are there to learn and the opportunity arises to give a little extra that may make the difference why not grab it and run with it, if even just one gets the message i't got to be worthwhile.

[MVnut]

Presumption is the mother of all fuck ups.....the suggestion was if something is seen that could be improved strike while the iron is hot...it's easy to adjust something early rather than try and change an ingrained bad habit. It's a training school, the pupils are there to learn and the opportunity arises to give a little extra that may make the difference why not grab it and run with it, if even just one gets the message i't got to be worthwhile.

It was not the training school that I was talking about, but the 6R which he passed. It is a test, simple. Not the place for coaching or training...that comes before, and after.

[Akzle]

Your too stupid to realize the actions of others are less likely to be controllable than that of the riders own riding.

your*


no-one can control another's actions. and it's rude to try.

[MD]

I'm just sick of people addicted to dumb shit technology. People who can't walk more than 3 paces on a footpath unless they are holding a bloody phone in front of their face the whole time. Probably the same dicks that can't cycle or ride a motorcycle unless they have a GoPro mounted in front of their face. People who can't sit with friends or workmates and actually talk to each other, look at each other when speaking, instead of staring like a moron into a bloody piece of plastic.

Open your eyes, just enjoy the world around you and stop filming every boring piece of shit that is you life being wasted.

Alexander Graham Bell would probably regret what he started if he saw the ill-mannered morons we have become.

I backpacked around the globe in my twenties. Every famous site all the people were soaking up the beauty, admiring the scenery and enjoying the moment. Look at travel pics now and all you see are dozens of unseen faces hidden behind a fucking mobile phone. Five minutes later those wankers can't recall what that place was?

[T.W.R]

It was not the training school that I was talking about, but the 6R which he passed. It is a test, simple. Not the place for coaching or training...that comes before, and after.

you should read it again the pupil didn't have an incident whilst doing the test but mentioned incidents prior to, same with the original post (which was stated as on arrival at the course)
Now I'm sure the 6R is still a test of competency too not a closed book written exam and its an educational facility under the umbrella of teaching and educating novice riders and preparing them the best way possible to survive & prosper out on the road
So that teaching and learning doesn't just stop like flicking a switch on or off and it isn't just a bloody production line pumping them out the door either.
Coaching and training never stop nor does learning though some pompous big heads would like to think so

[Moi]

you should read it again the pupil didn't have an incident whilst doing the test but mentioned incidents prior to, same with the original post (which was stated as on arrival at the course)
Now I'm sure the 6R is still a test of competency too not a closed book written exam and its an educational facility under the umbrella of teaching and educating novice riders and preparing them the best way possible to survive & prosper out on the road
So that teaching and learning doesn't just stop like flicking a switch on or off and it isn't just a bloody production line pumping them out the door either.
Coaching and training never stop nor does learning though some pompous big heads would like to think so

I don't disagree with what you are saying however, if I understand correctly, the 6R test is a "pass/fail" assessment. Pass/fail assessments are common within education and learning situations as they are relatively easy to administer - you either pass or fail each component and there will be a point at which you pass or fail depending on how many components you pass or fail. And the assessment/test is seen to stand alone from any prior instruction or possible follow-up instruction.

But, the pass/fail method has a major downfall and that is that it is a "snap shot" of performance on a particular day at a particular time. There can be no influence from either prior experience of the candidate or likely performance after the event. This means that if Dick turns up for his 6R test and is a total dick on the road on the way there but, Dick performs the assessment tasks faultlessly under test conditions then the assessor has no valid reason to fail Dick.

Pass/fail assessment is a form of summative assessment - sums up learning in a one shot assessment... remember School Certificate before you could pass some and not some.

A more appropriate form of assessment, in my opinion, would be a formative/ipsative assessment where the candidate is assessed over a number of assessments of a period of time with suitable feedback/feedforward and that the assessor is looking for improvement in both areas identified for improvement and areas which have already shown skill or achievement. However, that would require a huge rethink about how NZ teaches and tests people's ability to either ride or drive.

[rastuscat]

It's always been a challenge to me. We are motorcycle instructors, and also assessors.

When we are doing an assessment we are not allowed to do what's called prompting. Like, in test, we can't do coaching. It's a test.

But outside of a test, we always do coaching, advising etc.

When I'm doing an assessment, especially with a person I have coached, and they do something dumb, I cringe. But it's a test. I have to mark them on it, not coach them. Of course, at the end of the test, pass or fail, they get a debrief of ways to improve.

It's a bit frustrating telling someone they failed, and trying to let them know in an educational way.

[husaberg]

It's a bit frustrating telling someone they failed, and trying to let them know in an educational way.

But It's more fun than issuing tickets though aye

[rastuscat]

Two ways to fail really.

One immediate fail error.

Or a pattern of bad stuff.

Most fails are IFE. I've had a couple of people turn onto the wrong side of the road. That'll do it. One didn't stop at a stop sign. That'll do it too. Last week a guy pulled out in front of an oncoming car. The car had to brake to avpid my punter. That's a (#@* moment i can tell you.

Others have been generally poor at positioning, observations, following distance, speed management. You have to be fairly poor to fail this way, but it happens.

[Moi]

It's always been a challenge to me. We are motorcycle instructors, and also assessors.

When we are doing an assessment we are not allowed to do what's called prompting. Like, in test, we can't do coaching. It's a test.

But outside of a test, we always do coaching, advising etc.

When I'm doing an assessment, especially with a person I have coached, and they do something dumb, I cringe. But it's a test. I have to mark them on it, not coach them. Of course, at the end of the test, pass or fail, they get a debrief of ways to improve.

It's a bit frustrating telling someone they failed, and trying to let them know in an educational way.

The joys of being in an assessment framework...

As for that last part, you could always start with that leading question: "How do you think you did?"

[FJRider]

So then your testing is really just an unoffical practical licence test.

There is nothing "Unofficial" in a fail. You pass ... or ... NOT ..!!!