Franchise Building Company Debate

[russd7]

*friends don't let friends build with GJ Gardner

curious as to why? our son is building with them at the moment, PM me if it you like

[YellowDog]

curious as to why? our son is building with them at the moment, PM me if it you like

Honest truly, they are much of a muchness and it is down to the firm they pass the contract to, which varies hugely from area to area.

I'm just helping someone out of a Jennian Homes screw up, and they are supposed to be the good guys. The outfit they passed the work on to, went bust, as often happens when you bid too low for the work. Now the new firm, wants more and more money and don't seem to be familiar with the term "Fixed Price Contract", as per the signed agreement

OOPS: Off Topic

[neels]

*friends don't let friends build with GJ Gardner

Or any other franchise building company.

All you get is a generic plan, but without the economies of scale you would expect, and a fucking useless project manager managing what any competent builder would manage themselves.

Also, competent builders will avoid working for franchise building companies, employ one of them to build your house and cut out the parasites.

[Akzle]

Or any other franchise building company.

All you get is a generic plan, but without the economies of scale you would expect, and a fucking useless project manager managing what any competent builder would manage themselves.

Also, competent builders will avoid working for franchise building companies, employ one of them to build your house and cut out the parasites.

you can be my minister of building and tomfoolery

[Akzle]

curious as to why? our son is building with them at the moment, PM me if it you like

they're uteless sacks of shit and as young nelly said, any builder worth their salt will handle 110% of the shit for only 120% the cost.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Or any other franchise building company.

All you get is a generic plan, but without the economies of scale you would expect, and a fucking useless project manager managing what any competent builder would manage themselves.

Also, competent builders will avoid working for franchise building companies, employ one of them to build your house and cut out the parasites.

Agree. Because those fucking simpering fucking GJ's ads make me retch every time I see one. Here's the thing: that is what gets the punters in the door. They're sold on the "GJ's difference". Which is nice when its going right. When it doesnt go right GJ's not only will refuse to assist, they will actively take steps to ensure the building client gets fucked. DAMHIK. Their contract (at 8.3 in the last iteration I read) specifically says something like "Yeah, so, this is a contract between "A generic building company limited" holder of the local franchise, and you. you have no relationship with, or any remedy against the master franchisor. Up to and including criminal negligence by the (inevitably) now ex-franchisee. "Oh that guy, yeah he used to work for us but left, went to Brisbane I think."

The best you can hope for is the MB or CB completion bond guarantee. I have had a good result this year for one that went to shit in Dec 15 95% completed. That wasn't a franchise builder and thank fuck they were MB members because MB stepped in, finished the house and got Code Compliance for it... which was difficult because as inevitably happens the poor old subbies got fucked and with held their PS3s - client was so distraught by the whole process they havent moved into their dream house... they are living in what was their rental and have tenants in.

[Honest Andy]

Well this is going well off topic... I feel like I'm standing at the leaners bar

I wouldn't use a generic house building company.
Gj are only one of a number of housing outfits who all use great ads to sell shit boxes, and make their money by using cheap materials and by screwing down the subbies. Jennian, Stonewood, Golden, etc etc. I have worked on a couple of these houses and it's every contractor for himself, no cooperation. Everyone is so screwed down on price you just can't afford to take extra time to do a better job or help out anyone else. So when something doesn't go quite to plan or there is some small fuck up it just doesn't get fixed. I hate working on those jobs, they make good contractors mediocre and the mediocre contractors shit and the customer always ends up pissed off and suspicious and most importantly, reluctant to pay... Unlike on an ordinary job when the builder is choosing his own subbies because he knows they're good, paying them for results, and making sure problems are getting sorted out before they get noticed, ensuring a good result. And a happy customer who pays the bill. It costs more but it's worth it.

I have a customer who paid good money to the local GJ wankers and only got a slab and a mortgage before they went tits up. Had to work another two years and wait for property appreciation before he could borrow enough to keep building. This time he employed a single builder and worked as his labourer. Built the house to the same plan but used all his own favourite subbies and got a great result (apart from the completely unimaginative GJ generic plan) and the whole process gave him a huge sense of achievment.
So kind of a happy ending, if you don't count the huge loss loss of money...

[pritch]

Off topic but in a good way. If I was thinking of building a house that would be worth solid gold.

[Ocean1]

Off topic but in a good way. If I was thinking of building a house that would be worth solid gold.

If you was thinking of building a house you'd need your fucking head read.

Done it before, couldn't do it now, there'd be major civil unrest, the constabulary taking dim views and far too much shit of the type I'm seriously over at my delicately seasoned stage of life.

Seriously, when are people going to tumble that bitching about "they orta do something about" simple results in "them" doing shit nobody's prepared to pay for?

Has anyone actually added up the cost of materials and labour for a house build lately and compared that to the actual price paid for the finished product?

[HenryDorsetCase]

If you was thinking of building a house you'd need your fucking head read.

Done it before, couldn't do it now, there'd be major civil unrest, the constabulary taking dim views and far too much shit of the type I'm seriously over at my delicately seasoned stage of life.

Seriously, when are people going to tumble that bitching about "they orta do something about" simple results in "them" doing shit nobody's prepared to pay for?

Has anyone actually added up the cost of materials and labour for a house build lately and compared that to the actual price paid for the finished product?

then compared the cost of those materials to the SAME materials in, say, Straya and the US?

Mr Flying Crocodile (apart from some strange personal opinions) was a very informed commenter about building related matters on this site. Theres quite a long thread somewhere.

My brother (joiner) imported board direct from china at one point and even with the fuckery it was considerably cheaper than the same board sourced localy.

I think the "New Zealand margin" is around 25% from memory.

The other thing is that systems which are commonplace overseas are virtually unheard of here.

triple glazing and whatnot.

[Ocean1]

then compared the cost of those materials to the SAME materials in, say, Straya and the US?

Mr Flying Crocodile (apart from some strange personal opinions) was a very informed commenter about building related matters on this site. Theres quite a long thread somewhere.

My brother (joiner) imported board direct from china at one point and even with the fuckery it was considerably cheaper than the same board sourced localy.

I think the "New Zealand margin" is around 25% from memory.

The other thing is that systems which are commonplace overseas are virtually unheard of here.

triple glazing and whatnot.

Aye. We don't need to do that again.

Still, glazing, excellent example. Here every single unit is custom made. It's a fucking joke, a highly specialised and automated manufactury with orders weeks long to make... a window.

As opposed to the way the rest of the world does it: Here's the options and sizes available: ............ 1800 x 900 chartreuse powder finish alloy frame art #4.6, double wiggle-strip argon purged fade-in #2 grey tint with thermostatic vents? Sure, back the truck up right over here.

And no, it's not economies of scale, we could make windows half the price that way here.

[YellowDog]

Aye. We don't need to do that again.

Still, glazing, excellent example. Here every single unit is custom made. It's a fucking joke, a highly specialised and automated manufactury with orders weeks long to make... a window.

As opposed to the way the rest of the world does it: Here's the options and sizes available: ............ 1800 x 900 chartreuse powder finish alloy frame art #4.6, double wiggle-strip argon purged fade-in #2 grey tint with thermostatic vents? Sure, back the truck up right over here.

And no, it's not economies of scale, we could make windows half the price that way here.

2 POMs came here in the late 1990s to educate the Kiwis about double glazing. They went bust in less than 2 years. The idea of not having mould on ceillings and wind blowing through your hair, whilst the windows shut, hadn't yet caught on : lol:

In Europe, it is cheaper to replace your entire houses windows, with new ones, than it is to repaint them. The last time decided not to strip down and repaint the woodwork on my UK windows, it cost me less than $5,000, to remove the old wooden frames and replacement them double glazed ones.

The machines they use, are able to cut and shape any size window. That's what those POMs brought to NZ.

There's never an enterprising POM around when you need one, but then again, the NZ price fixers would have put them out of business anyway.

None of that high turnover low margin stuff, over here, thank you

[HenryDorsetCase]

I hate those house porn programs on TV but I watched the one of the VERY expensive queenstown house. They imported their windows from Chermany. Triple glazed with thermal breaks. Massively expensive.

They also imported wooden cladding from fucking Estonia.

[Maha]

Off topic but in a good way. If I was thinking of building a house that would be worth solid gold.

But would it meet with approval of the SCU?

[jasonu]

Aye. We don't need to do that again.

Still, glazing, excellent example. Here every single unit is custom made. It's a fucking joke, a highly specialised and automated manufactury with orders weeks long to make... a window.

As opposed to the way the rest of the world does it: Here's the options and sizes available: ............ 1800 x 900 chartreuse powder finish alloy frame art #4.6, double wiggle-strip argon purged fade-in #2 grey tint with thermostatic vents? Sure, back the truck up right over here.

And no, it's not economies of scale, we could make windows half the price that way here.

No truck required. They are all on the shelf at The Home Depot.
http://www.homedepot.com/s/window?NCNI-5
You cunts are still in the dark ages.