The 2017 Election Thread

[sidecar bob]

Yeah, I tend to state I'm only having a wild stab in the dark when I don't know something is a fact. I leave that to fuckwits like yourself. And hey, just because you'd rather suck the pony tail pulling fuckwits cock, not really my problem either.

I think you forgot, I recently put my feet up, I think the new govt was perfect timing for me. More hand outs for us lazy fucks.

[Graystone]

Well, you can look at it multiple ways.

First off - We are a Sexually dimorphic species - so on a purely principled point- you could reasonably argue that given that data point alone, it's an irrational belief.

Secondly - what is your standard for 'Comprehensively'? Especially when considering your previous comment:



Then you've got the anthropomorphic argument, and I'm going to quote Wikipedia here:

"Most anthropologists hold that there are no known anthropological societies that are unambiguously matriarchal, but some authors believe exceptions may exist or may have"

When you package that with the fact there are civilizations, that are on opposite sides of the world, that have never had any form of contact, either in their recent history OR in their oral traditions, that all have arranged themselves into "patriarchal" societies - that is a strong empirical argument for there being differences.

Then you've got the various Neurological arguments - There seems to be a fairly uniform consensus that the average ratios of Grey/White matter between the Genders differs Link - and oh - look at that, it also points out it aligns with the Gender/IQ disparity, and even links to yet ANOTHER study showing the same result - same average, but greater male variability - there's also the work done in regards to mapping the connections within the brain - with men showing a more linear structure, isolated within each hemisphere, whereas women showing more inter-connected structure - this was theorised (going from memory here) that the more linear structure resulted in faster reaction times and split-decision making, suggested to be an evolutionary advantage for combat.

Then you've got the differences that Testosterone has - the preference for things vs people - again has been fairly well documented, with studies done to account for societal bias (so using New borns) and also this has been replicated in other mamallian primates.

With that all said, let me return to my previous point about Malicious Equality (which you epicly fumbled your interpretation of):

If we were to remove all Gender segregation in sports - this would be a perfect example of Malicious Equality - in fact the result would look something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2QgDWSfQik Namely the worlds best Female Kickboxer Lucia Rijker (who was/is an absolute monster in the ring - going undefeated her entire career with only 1 draw against female opponents - with a massive KO ratio - She's a Badass) gets man-handled, then Knocked out by some no-name journeyman who doesn't even have a wikipedia page in the second round.

It is most certainly equality, but it is enforced in such a way to cause harm to the other gender.

A flipside example would be the trend of discouraging rough-and-tumble play in schools (such as banning bullrush/british bulldog, or even banning tag etc.) where the equity is trying to force young boys into more 'feminine' behavior - stopping them from indulging in 'boisterous' play (which, typically, are more popular amongst males than females).

And I'd say that enforcing a certain kind of Equality can absolutely be done for Sexist reasons (such as above)

That's nice dear, but it's still all (apart from the physical ability red herring) just...

A belief

Equality is not irrational. We're the same species, we do the same things, we have the same rights, why should we not be thought as equals? It certainly hasn't been proven in terms of mental aptitude that we are not.

It is unethical (therefor irrational) for equality not to be the default state, I mean where do you draw the line? Racial profiling? Eugenics? Demographics? Belief systems? Neurological disorders? At what point do you say, these people must be treated as equals as those attributes mean nothing compared to their actions and abilities?

[jasonu]

I think you forgot, I recently put my feet up, I think the new govt was perfect timing for me. More hand outs for dole bludgers, women that spit out kids cause it is easier and more profitable than actually working, other various benefit spongers, those that were here first that can't be bothered working because they were here first, lifetime uni students and any other lazy cunt that would rather get paid by the tax payers than be a contributing member to society

Yep it is going to be a fucking field day for some.

[Katman]

I mean where do you draw the line?

Neurological disorders?

That would be a good place to start.

[Graystone]

That would be a good place to start.

I'm sure nobody would begrudge TPTB sending free crayons your way every now and then, just stop eating all the purple ones eh!

[Crasherfromwayback]

I think you forgot, I recently put my feet up, I think the new govt was perfect timing for me. More hand outs for us lazy fucks.

A country without welfare is not a place I'd like to live. So yeah, having Jacinda and a government that actually wants to do something to help people, instead of lining their rich mates pockets, a-la JK, is a wonderful thing indeed. So if that makes it seem like I want to crawl up her arse, so be it. Ps: My Mrs is way hotter than Jacinda, so no, I don't actually want to fuck the PM.

[husaberg]

Okay then - how many Political leaders have committed suicide?

Hundreds more than any of the anologies you raised.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...mitted_suicide
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...mitted_suicide

I see you only refer to 1 or about 6 things that i highlighted.
So How many political leaders have failed due to them having a baby?
Also how many female leaders have needed to run a 100m faster than a male olympic athlete?

Furthermore, there is a growing mound of evidence that shows the Male suicide rate (in the west) has a relationship to some of the inequities that are levied against Men.

Yet Elite Women athletes run the 100 metres slower than male elite athletcs due to a male having

physiological advantage.

To that end - if any politician was to show signs of being suicidal, regardless of Gender, I'd want them stood down from their post and treatment sought.

What you refer to is at the essence of the stigma that is attached to depression and is why people tend to not ask for help.

Lastly - it's a misinterpretation of my line of reasoning.

I don't agree, it resonable interpretation considering you consider the pm ability to run the 100m is relevent as well as her pregnancy.

[Grumph]

I don't agree, it resonable interpretation considering you consider the pm ability to run the 100m is relevent as well as her pregnancy.

At this point I'm forcibly reminded of the old quote from Ginger Rogers "I did everything that Fred Astaire did - but backwards and in heels"

[husaberg]

At this point I'm forcibly reminded of the old quote from Ginger Rogers "I did everything that Fred Astaire did - but backwards and in heels"

For less money too.

[Brian d marge]

This thread needs a bit of

Hot chocolate.....

https://youtu.be/J-GkwIRbLw8

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[AllanB]

I really don't understand why people get so passionate about politics.

Particularly in NZ

No one is every go to stray too far from the popular vote.

[TheDemonLord]

That's nice dear, but it's still all (apart from the physical ability red herring) just...

"Belief" as you say - that is backed by evidence.

Equality is not irrational. We're the same species, we do the same things, we have the same rights, why should we not be thought as equals? It certainly hasn't been proven in terms of mental aptitude that we are not.

Whoa!

Hold your horses there. That's a bait and switch if ever I saw one - your original statement was:

So do you consider my belief that 'men and women are equals in all areas unless comprehensively proven otherwise', to be an irrational belief, held against one particular gender?

To which I stated that there are multiple dimensions (all backed by evidence) that a logical and rational argument could be made that it is Irrational.

Then you talk about Equality - so which Equality? Equality of Oppertunity? Well, that's certainly not what you are referring to in the above statement. Perhaps you mean Equality under the law? But again, that is not what you said. you said that "Men and Women ARE equals in ALL areas" - There is a difference between BEING equal and being TREATED as equal.

Case in point - if myself and Mr Bolt end up before a Judge - in theory we will be treated as equals (as is right and proper to do) but that is a world away from saying Myself and Mr Bolt ARE equals.

It is unethical (therefor irrational) for equality not to be the default state, I mean where do you draw the line? Racial profiling? Eugenics? Demographics? Belief systems? Neurological disorders? At what point do you say, these people must be treated as equals as those attributes mean nothing compared to their actions and abilities?

Just because something is unethical, does not mean it is irrational.

Equality under the Law is the starting point, followed by Equality of Opportunity. However, with any group, trends appear - and some of them should be taken into account - for example, there's some data to suggest that a lot of Indigenous populations have such problems with Alcoholism due to the missing enzymes and mutable genes - do we ignore the group data?

What about the absolute domination of people from African decent in Track and Field? We know that the prevalence of fast-twitch muscle fibres gives them an edge in the sprinting event.

You see, there is a subtle difference:

I say that there is a group trait, that is well documented - and should be considered as a possibility
Whereas the Sexist you are trying to label me as says that since they belong to this group they MUST have this trait.

2 different statements.

[TheDemonLord]

Hundreds more than any of the anologies you raised.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...mitted_suicide
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...mitted_suicide

I see you only refer to 1 or about 6 things that i highlighted.
So How many political leaders have failed due to them having a baby?
Also how many female leaders have needed to run a 100m faster than a male olympic athlete?

So I looked first at the Politicians list, skipping to the NZ page - and interestingly enough - not one instance past the 1930s
Looking through the heads of State list there are a number of curious trends - namely those that killed themselves to avoid disgrace and those that killed themselves following or impending Military defeat.

How many Political leader have failed? well there's only been one political leader - Benazir Bhutto - who seemed to have quite a few issues with corruption during her tenure.

When you compare to the wider demographic of highly paid Women professionals - this is where we see that many of them opt for a more balanced home/work life, pass up oppertunities for advancement that would negatively impact this balance. As a perfect example - I point you again to Toni Street and her decision to step down from Seven Sharp, despite it being her dream job (according to her) because she wanted a more balanced life.

As for Female leaders needing to run 100 meters - it might have helped Benazir....

Yet Elite Women athletes run the 100 metres slower than male elite athletcs due to a male having

physiological advantage.

For sure - but this was a refutation to the statement made by Graystone (or variants of it) that Men and Women ARE equals. which was a foundational premise. Since you agree that there is a Physiological advantage, do you think that there are any Neurological advantages? It's not a huge leap from one to the other - and you can pick either way that you fancy - there are definitely a few areas that Women have an advantage (Linguistics I think is one) but there are others where Men have an advantage (such as Competitiveness)

What you refer to is at the essence of the stigma that is attached to depression and is why people tend to not ask for help.

I'm going to quote Star Trek here:

"Regulation 619: The commanding officer must relieve themselves of command if their current mission leaves them emotionally compromised and unable to make rational decisions"

If your mental state is impacting your ability to do your job, then the ONLY responsible option is to step down and seek help. Stigma or not. To put it another way - is it right that you would risk the lives and livelihoods of others due to your own issues?

I don't agree, it resonable interpretation considering you consider the pm ability to run the 100m is relevent as well as her pregnancy.

Can you quote me where I've said as such?

[husaberg]

So I looked first at the Politicians list, skipping to the NZ page - and interestingly enough - not one instance past the 1930s
Looking through the heads of State list there are a number of curious trends - namely those that killed themselves to avoid disgrace and those that killed themselves following or impending Military defeat.
How many Political leader have failed? well there's only been one political leader - Benazir Bhutto - who seemed to have quite a few issues with corruption during her tenure.
When you compare to the wider demographic of highly paid Women professionals - this is where we see that many of them opt for a more balanced home/work life, pass up oppertunities for advancement that would negatively impact this balance. As a perfect example - I point you again to Toni Street and her decision to step down from Seven Sharp, despite it being her dream job (according to her) because she wanted a more balanced life.

As for Female leaders needing to run 100 meters - it might have helped Benazir....



For sure - but this was a refutation to the statement made by Graystone (or variants of it) that Men and Women ARE equals. which was a foundational premise. Since you agree that there is a Physiological advantage, do you think that there are any Neurological advantages? It's not a huge leap from one to the other - and you can pick either way that you fancy - there are definitely a few areas that Women have an advantage (Linguistics I think is one) but there are others where Men have an advantage (such as Competitiveness)



I'm going to quote Star Trek here:

"Regulation 619: The commanding officer must relieve themselves of command if their current mission leaves them emotionally compromised and unable to make rational decisions"

If your mental state is impacting your ability to do your job, then the ONLY responsible option is to step down and seek help. Stigma or not. To put it another way - is it right that you would risk the lives and livelihoods of others due to your own issues?



Can you quote me where I've said as such?

Every Pakistani leader has faced corruption allegations
Note Benazir Bhutto served twice including after the initial corruption allegations
Not one NZ leader on the list you say, but yet 41 males and zero females................ you ignore the math.
As for the relevance of what you suggest about 100m times and where look above.
ps quoting star trek FAF

[Brian d marge]

I really don't understand why people get so passionate about politics.

Particularly in NZ

No one is every go to stray too far from the popular vote.

Cause the lying cnts that run the show are ruining my day....

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