The 2017 Election Thread

[Ocean1]

Not sure if that would help.



At what...15K a year for a Pension times 20 years...300K, people sure paid a lot of tax over their lifetime.

Plenty of money around for things like keeping the Chinese out of the Pacific " our backyard".

If what would help?

Or more realistically $4k/year for 40 years @ 3% = $310k. (Which is about half what Kiwisaver returned). More than enough to cover the current pension, considering the attrition rate and the average duration.

Nowhere near as much as there is for subsidising those who somehow can't manage to support themselves, let alone anyone else.

[Ocean1]

Apparently most of you are wanting to pay MORE tax.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12048307

"The CTU's polling on income taxes is notable because Government has already ruled them outside of the tax working group's terms of reference."

[husaberg]

Well it's not on that list. But if you listen to either of the main parties they say NZ super isn't "fully funded", (meaning it comes from current tax revenue), in which case yes it does include pensions.

If you listen to the majority who've paid those taxes for their whole working life you tend to hear that they most certainly expected that some of their taxes go towards funding their pension.

Hard to avoid the conclusion that the money taxpayers expected to be invested towards their retirement was simply blown by successive vote buying sprees. Which is the main flaw with any system where voters don't have the protection offered by a written constitution: the many will always vote themselves money from the few.

So exactly whose vote buying sprees were they Ocean?

The Superannuation Fund was created by the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Act 2001 on 11 October 2001 by Michael Cullen, who was then Minister of Finance under the Fifth Labour Government, and is colloquially known as the "Cullen Fund".
The New Zealand Government had contributed $14.88b to the fund by 2012. The sovereign fund posted a record 25.8% return in the twelve months till 30 June 2013. In the 2009 New Zealand budget the National Government suspended payments to the fund. Contributions were proposed to resume in 2020/21 when the Government's net debt to GDP falls below 20% again.Instead, the new Labour-led government started payments into the superfund again in December 2017.

New Zealand super


The Labour government’s New Zealand Superannuation Act, passed in August 1974, required mandatory pension contributions by employees and employers for all workers over the age of 17. Contributions could only be withdrawn if people were leaving the country permanently and payments would begin upon retirement from the age of 60. The new scheme came into operation on 1 April 1975 but its life would be short. In that year's election the National opposition proposed an alternative tax-funded National Superannuation scheme. This wooed many voters who were unhappy about their take-home pay being reduced to fund their retirement. The affordability of National Super, which replaced Labour's scheme in February 1977, would be severely tested as the numbers eligible for it grew. The question of how to pay for our retirement has dogged successive governments.

There were no dedicated tax increases to cover the increased costs of the expanded pension spending. At the same time, New Zealand's medium-term economic situation deteriorated from the mid-1970s, adding to the strain on government finances.
The results were a large overseas borrowing programme and a series of initiatives by successive governments to trim the costs of the new pension scheme and remove tax concessions for private provision.
This policy shift reflected a swing back to concerns about the affordability and sustainability of the public pension system.

Gee great stuff national

.................

[Ocean1]

So exactly whose vote buying sprees were they Ocean?

Gee great stuff national

.................

Do you understand what vote buying means?

But yep, bad move. Labour spending and the GFC notwithstanding they should have left the fund alone and cut the fuck out of spending elsewhere.

[husaberg]

Do you understand what vote buying means?

But yep, bad move. Labour spending and the GFC notwithstanding they should have left the fund alone and cut the fuck out of spending elsewhere.

he Labour government’s New Zealand Superannuation Act, passed in August 1974, required mandatory pension contributions by employees and employers for all workers over the age of 17. Contributions could only be withdrawn if people were leaving the country permanently and payments would begin upon retirement from the age of 60. The new scheme came into operation on 1 April 1975 but its life would be short. In that year's election the National opposition proposed an alternative tax-funded National Superannuation scheme. This wooed many voters who were unhappy about their take-home pay being reduced to fund their retirement. The affordability of National Super, which replaced Labour's scheme in February 1977, would be severely tested as the numbers eligible for it grew. The question of how to pay for our retirement has dogged successive governments.

The Superannuation Fund was created by the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Act 2001 on 11 October 2001 by Michael Cullen, who was then Minister of Finance under the Fifth Labour Government, and is colloquially known as the "Cullen Fund".
The New Zealand Government had contributed $14.88b to the fund by 2012. The sovereign fund posted a record 25.8% return in the twelve months till 30 June 2013. In the 2009 New Zealand budget the National Government suspended payments to the fund.

I am well aware what buying votes means i posted some examples, Yet you still cant even bring yourself to properly admit you were sold out twice with your pension funds by your beloved NATIONAL.

Don't get me wrong i can see why the GFC upset you being as it was caused by those same regulation free, Right wing Free market economies you are always expousing as being great, collasping so dramaically. But dont worry all the common people paid to bail out all those private banks......

[Ocean1]

I am well aware what buying votes means i posted some examples, Yet you still cant even bring yourself to properly admit you were sold out twice with your pension funds by your beloved NATIONAL.

Don't get me wrong i can see why the GFC upset you being as it was caused by those same regulation free, Right wing Free market economies you are always expousing as being great, collasping so dramaically. But dont worry all the common people paid to bail out all those private banks......

My you really are a Labour troll.

I just said I didn't appreciate "My beloved National" selling out taxpayers, and you continue to react as if absolutely everything is an attack on your beloved labour.

For the record: I don't have any political affiliation or party preferences whatsoever, just an aversion for any political entity "redistributing" taxpayers hard earned money to those who simply don't work as hard. But the fact is: that's more or less the definition of socialism, the union's political arm's raison d'être.

[jasonu]

This is where the tooth fairy got her stupid slogan from.

[Banditbandit]

Apparently most of you are wanting to pay MORE tax.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12048307

Yes - that's true - been shown over and over again

Those here who object to the current level of tax, object to tax increases and want taxes to be lowered are in the minority ..

[Banditbandit]

, just an aversion for any political entity "redistributing" taxpayers hard earned money to those who simply don't work as hard. But the fact is: that's more or less the definition of socialism, the union's political arm's raison d'être.

Your statement is completely ideologically drive - and wrong.


You say you have no party affiliation - probably true .. or political affiliation - possibly true

But you certainly have the minority right wing ideology ...

[Ocean1]

Yes - that's true - been shown over and over again

Those here who object to the current level of tax, object to tax increases and want taxes to be lowered are in the minority ..

Show us again then.

I have no problem with the current level of tax. Happy for it to be higher. I simply object to the expectation that only the most productive should pay all of it.

[Ocean1]

Your statement is completely ideologically drive - and wrong.


You say you have no party affiliation - probably true .. or political affiliation - possibly true

But you certainly have the minority right wing ideology ...

My statement is one of simple fact, the labour party is a product of the unions, constructed, owned and directed by them. Their history is exactly what you'd expect from such socialist roots: one of advancing re-distributive policy at the expense of the "productive sector".

I don't think anyone is interested in your analysis of my affiliations, but your assessment doesn't agree with most others wrt my political alignment.

Also, there's nothing wrong with attempting to adhere to ideals that define ethically consistent concepts. You could try that instead of blindly parroting tired academic left tottering dogma.

[Swoop]

Dude, labour's the party invented and funded by a few unions, it simply doesn't get more narrow minded than that.

They are demanding a return on their investment now...

Apparently most of you are wanting to pay MORE tax.

That would be the people who voted for the "Let's tax this" party.

Social engineering costs money. Time to milk the middle and lower classes again.

[R650R]

Time to buy Unison shares... GhettoCinda project kicking off in my street, four vehicles a digger and five guys to put new power main into a HNZ property that is being subdivided... got to be at least 10-15k easy revenue there????

[Swoop]

Repealing the 3-strikes law... Nope. That's not happening now.

The oil exploration ban seems to be a result of the three stooges (Toothcinda, Winnie and Shaw) having a beer and deciding not to get anyone else involved... like people who actually KNOW what the fuck they are doing, involved.

[Ocean1]

Repealing the 3-strikes law... Nope. That's not happening now.

The oil exploration ban seems to be a result of the three stooges (Toothcinda, Winnie and Shaw) having a beer and deciding not to get anyone else involved... like people who actually KNOW what the fuck they are doing, involved.

They seem to have no idea how the earnings that supply their taxes actually happen.