The 2017 Election Thread

[husaberg]

And what Ocean was pointing out, and now what I'm pointing out, is the fundamental reality of MMP is that the formed govt is not the party that received the most votes, nor is it a group listed on the ballot.
Maybe I live here based on NZ's other virtues... I sure as shit didn't move here for the MMP system anyway.

Really that you are and Ocean pointing out because i have done so many times.

Now we just need to correct the even more laughable omission that allows the leader of a party representing 7% of the national vote from holding the top job.

Or any job at all, preferably.

The most votes was the Coalition of Greens Labour and NZ first and the most seats.
Under FPF who got the most votes was irreverent Nation often won elections with less votes but more seats.
Under MMP who gets to govern is who can muster the most seats.
Even English conceded he lost why can you and ocean.......is it a bitter Bill to swallow

The difference is Ocean feels agreeved that his beloved National did not win the election and get to form a goverment.

[Graystone]

Really that you are and Ocean pointing out because i have done so many times.


The difference is Ocean feels agreeved that his beloved National did not win the election and get to form a goverment.

Interesting phrasing there on your second bit, since so far you have been saying forming a govt is how you win the election. Now it is something you do after winning the election?

The first bit is more indecipherable like phrasing.

[husaberg]

Interesting phrasing there on your second bit, since so far you have been saying forming a govt is how you win the election. Now it is something you do after winning the election?

The first bit is more indecipherable like phrasing.

You win a general election by gaining enough seats to form a goverment.
Let me guess are you a pom same as TDL who is not used to wining anything since 1968....

[Ocean1]

Really that you are and Ocean pointing out because i have done so many times.




The difference is Ocean feels agreeved that his beloved National did not win the election and get to form a goverment.

There's that straw again, I'm amazed you don't choke on the shear volume involved. Just to clear that all away: Ocean couldn't give a fuck which of the almost identical major parties govern, Ocean gives a fuck that the one that did, in fact win the election subsequently didn't get to form the government.

No amount of you explaining how that works somehow makes it a system that represents the wishes of a voting majority, which is supposed to be the whole point of the exercise. To reiterate: Zero votes were cast for whatever deal was cobbled together in secret by the losers involved after the fact. All clear now?

[Graystone]

You win a general election by gaining enough seats to form a goverment.
Let me guess are you a pom same as TDL who is not used to wining anything since 1968....

You also win elections by getting the most votes. Fucking novel concept though it may be.
Up, round, and a little to the left, you were only half a world out...

[husaberg]

There's that straw again, I'm amazed you don't choke on the shear volume involved. Just to clear that all away: Ocean couldn't give a fuck which of the almost identical major parties govern, Ocean gives a fuck that the one that did, in fact win the election subsequently didn't get to form the government.

No amount of you explaining how that works somehow makes it a system that represents the wishes of a voting majority, which is supposed to be the whole point of the exercise. To reiterate: Zero votes were cast for whatever deal was cobbled together in secret by the losers involved after the fact. All clear now?

All i are reading here is you moaning about how that national never won again. face it.

You also win elections by getting the most votes. Fucking novel concept though it may be.
Up, round, and a little to the left, you were only half a world out...

No you see here in NZ you clearly don't, win elections by gain the most votes, Not under MMP which in case you missed it that the system we here in NZ.
So like ocean has to, learn to live with it, or do something about it or piss off.
But don't bother to reply to my posts, if cant get the simple things correct.
Go back to what ever it is you and TDL are arguing about on the conspiracy thread, because trust me no one i have seen reads your to posts there either

[Graystone]

No you seen here in NZ you clearly don't Not here under MMP which in case you missed it that the system we here in NZ.
So like ocean have so learn to live with it or do something about it or piss off.
But don't bother to reply to my posts if if cant get the simple things correct.
Go back to what ever it is you and TDL are arguing about on the conspiracy thread because trust me no one i have seen reads your two posts there either

Exactly, therein lies the ire; have you even been paying attention? The people choose who they want to win the election based on policy and planning, then that all gets chopped and changed in the mad scramble for seats afterwards.
Yeh, cos kiwibiker is all about 'doing something' about shit and not just some miscellaneous whinging and banter... how about you go fuck your hat.
Either? Are you saying nobody reads our posts here? Who have I been 'conversing' with then? are you a ghost? Am I a ghost? I don't want to be a ghost

[husaberg]

Exactly, therein lies the ire; have you even been paying attention? The people choose who they want to win the election based on policy and planning, then that all gets chopped and changed in the mad scramble for seats afterwards.
Yeh, cos kiwibiker is all about 'doing something' about shit and not just some miscellaneous whinging and banter... how about you go fuck your hat.
Either? Are you saying nobody reads our posts here? Who have I been 'conversing' with then? are you a ghost? Am I a ghost? I don't want to be a ghost

adds to ignore, you are now a ghost. to me anyway. Its a waste of time replying to you as you don't actually understand that NZ has MMP. Like it or not coalition goverments happen
The only time Ocean has problems with them is when his beloved national cant figure out a way to make it happen for them

[Graystone]

ads to ignore you are now

Fuck, now how will I know if I am a ghost!

[Ocean1]

All i are reading here is you moaning about how that national never won again. face it.

Which is always your problem, you only ever hear what you want to argue against.

But I guess if ignoring reality makes you happy then fuck reality, right?

It does make you happy don't it? Only if the semi-coherent rants are just you inventing shit to be angry about then I'd be forced to feel really sorry for you.

[husaberg]

Which is always your problem, you only ever hear what you want to argue against.

But I guess if ignoring reality makes you happy then fuck reality, right?

It does make you happy don't it? Only if the semi-coherent rants are just you inventing shit to be angry about then I'd be forced to feel really sorry for you.

Lets see I translate that to Ocean does not like to see his own hypocrisy highlighted
I though most people already knew that.. was it news to you?
But if you really dont want you hypocritical statements pointed out i would suggest you don't make them so often.

Case in point

Well it's not on that list. But if you listen to either of the main parties they say NZ super isn't "fully funded", (meaning it comes from current tax revenue), in which case yes it does include pensions.

If you listen to the majority who've paid those taxes for their whole working life you tend to hear that they most certainly expected that some of their taxes go towards funding their pension.

Hard to avoid the conclusion that the money taxpayers expected to be invested towards their retirement was simply blown by successive vote buying sprees. Which is the main flaw with any system where voters don't have the protection offered by a written constitution: the many will always vote themselves money from the few.

So exactly whose vote buying sprees were they Ocean?
o exactly whose vote buying sprees were they Ocean?

The Superannuation Fund was created by the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Act 2001 on 11 October 2001 by Michael Cullen, who was then Minister of Finance under the Fifth Labour Government, and is colloquially known as the "Cullen Fund".
The New Zealand Government had contributed $14.88b to the fund by 2012. The sovereign fund posted a record 25.8% return in the twelve months till 30 June 2013. In the 2009 New Zealand budget the National Government suspended payments to the fund. Contributions were proposed to resume in 2020/21 when the Government's net debt to GDP falls below 20% again.Instead, the new Labour-led government started payments into the superfund again in December 2017.



New Zealand super


The Labour government’s New Zealand Superannuation Act, passed in August 1974, required mandatory pension contributions by employees and employers for all workers over the age of 17. Contributions could only be withdrawn if people were leaving the country permanently and payments would begin upon retirement from the age of 60. The new scheme came into operation on 1 April 1975 but its life would be short. In that year's election the National opposition proposed an alternative tax-funded National Superannuation scheme. This wooed many voters who were unhappy about their take-home pay being reduced to fund their retirement. The affordability of National Super, which replaced Labour's scheme in February 1977, would be severely tested as the numbers eligible for it grew. The question of how to pay for our retirement has dogged successive governments.



There were no dedicated tax increases to cover the increased costs of the expanded pension spending. At the same time, New Zealand's medium-term economic situation deteriorated from the mid-1970s, adding to the strain on government finances.
The results were a large overseas borrowing programme and a series of initiatives by successive governments to trim the costs of the new pension scheme and remove tax concessions for private provision.
This policy shift reflected a swing back to concerns about the affordability and sustainability of the public pension system



.................

Or

Like most rational people I tend to vote for a policy manifest, not a pretty face. Shipley happened to preside over a policy set that most people voted for, Ardern didn't, and neither does Peters.

Every female member of my family not actually a child has done, what's your point?

No one voted national at the election expecting Jenny Shipley to stage a coup and take over as PM.
Nor had they voted for NZ first at teat election expecting them to co into a coalition with national either at that time either.
Arden and the rest of her cohorts in the coalition won the election, its time for you to suck it up and deal with it.

or this

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/ind...ver-inequality



Damn right there is, the bottom half of the income demographic needs to up their game and pay their share of fucking tax.

Lazy bastards.

So judging by that statement do I take it that you consider the multinationals active in NZ are paying their fair share also then Ocean.
What about the banks were they paying a fair share under national then.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opi...share-of-taxes

I have no idea how you take that conclusion, it's nowhere stated or implied. But since you asked : it depends to what extent they're using taxpayer funded infrastructure.

I'm more concerned about the far bigger issue represented by the half of NZ that cost taxpayers more than they contribute. It's a serious imposition on the most productive 25% or so who are obliged to provide the "redistribution" to those who simply fail to produce the goods required to maintain their own lifestyle.

Really I was under the impression you were talking income tax
Remember its IMCOME TAX not OCEANS IDEA OF USE OF INFRASTUTURE TAX.
Oh well go back to your general right wing hypocrisy then ocean.
Afterall why is it fair to get huge income earners like Facebook with little contributions little to NZ economy to pay a fair amount of tax on the money they generated in the National party set up NZ TAX haven.


Too right especially if one lot are potential big cash donaters to the national and Act party coffers.......

[Katman]

Omg, it's happening again.

[Ocean1]

Lets see I translate that to

I knew you couldn't hold all that straw in, the "must defend Proletariat from Wicked Tory Bogyman" pressure must be terribly painful for you.

[Madness]

Omg, it's happening again.

Waning Gibbous.

[husaberg]

I knew you couldn't hold all that straw in, the "must defend Proletariat from Wicked Tory Bogyman" pressure must be terribly painful for you.

odd becuase what you just posted is a classic strawman response.