The 2017 Election Thread

[sidecar bob]

That might make more sense if you Didnt once claim the problem was caused by tax payers not paying the tax that should have been on houses.

No, No, please. Can you just come up with some defence other than "well the National party did worse" in a kind of whiney voice.

[Ocean1]

Why here..............

Who said anything about them being "supposed" to pay tax? Your innate greed for other people's earnings is showing.

The key facts that you completely ignored, for the umpteenth time is that, firstly labour decided to pay state housing tenants a subsidy, rather than the traditional method of throwing away other people's money by simply undercharge them in rent, thereby opening up the market to private investment in "social" housing. Some have claimed that's just a subsidy benefiting only landlord's, but nobody not immediately recognisable as a whining, grasping Marxist prick. They did that simply because they wanted private investors to take over the roll of supplying houses for less than they cost to provide, so they could waste the subsequent savings on different social welfare experiments.

Secondly, they started taxing retirement savings schemes as income. Nobody else in the world does that. Actively discourage long term saving generally invested in industry to that extent simply so you can spend all that fresh tax immediately? Don't bother waiting for the inevitable consequences, just shoot yourself now.

You don't need 20/20 hindsight to work out what taxing the fuck out of one major investment option and subsidising another one would be, do you, class?

You certainly wouldn't stoop to blaming another govt, having inherited the subsequent mess for your historic fuck up, now would you?

Your propensity to mangle what you read into something that more or less supports your hugely distorted prejudices is a truly debilitating malady. May you one day find a cure.

[husaberg]

Who said anything about them being "supposed" to pay tax? Your innate greed for other people's earnings is showing.

The key facts that you completely ignored, for the umpteenth time is that, firstly labour decided to pay state housing tenants a subsidy, rather than the traditional method of throwing away other people's money by simply undercharge them in rent, thereby opening up the market to private investment in "social" housing. Some have claimed that's just a subsidy benefiting only landlord's, but nobody not immediately recognisable as a whining, grasping Marxist prick. They did that simply because they wanted private investors to take over the roll of supplying houses for less than they cost to provide, so they could waste the subsequent savings on different social welfare experiments.

Secondly, they started taxing retirement savings schemes as income. Nobody else in the world does that. Actively discourage long term saving generally invested in industry to that extent simply so you can spend all that fresh tax immediately? Don't bother waiting for the inevitable consequences, just shoot yourself now.

You don't need 20/20 hindsight to work out what taxing the fuck out of one major investment option and subsidising another one would be, do you, class?

You certainly wouldn't stoop to blaming another govt, having inherited the subsequent mess for your historic fuck up, now would you?

Your propensity to mangle what you read into something that more or less supports your hugely distorted prejudices is a truly debilitating malady. May you one day find a cure.

All i am hearing is you being hypocritical............

National couldn't give a rats arse about retirement schemes they voted against kiwisaver

they even tried to dismantle it.

New Zealand’s savings rate is far too low. KiwiSaver has seen a big improvement in that rate. Cutting it off at the knees makes no sense.

The seven cuts are:

Capping compulsory employer contributions at 2 percent in April 2009.
Cutting the member fee subsidy of $40 a year in April 2009.
Taking away the mortgage diversion option in April 2009.
Abolishing employer tax credit in April 2009.
Halving member tax credit from $1,042 to $521 a year in July 2011.
Taxing the employer contribution in April 2012.
Cutting the kickstart of $1,000 in May 2015.

they abolished what economists have called the best saving scheme in the world.

That was the day Robert Muldoon, the newly elected Prime Minister, announced the abolition of the 37-week-old compulsory New Zealand Superannuation Scheme, introduced by the previous Labour Government.
The scheme was innovative, remarkably similar to KiwiSaver and well ahead of its time. It would be worth more than $240 billion today and would have transformed the New Zealand economy into a world beater over the past 30 years.
The basis of the scheme was outlined in a white paper published in September 1973. The paper's recommendations were reflected in the Superannuation Act 1974, which was passed on August 26, 1974.
The main characteristics of the scheme were as follows:

* It was compulsory for all employees between 17 and retirement age.
* Money could only be taken out early when a contributor left the country on a permanent basis.
* Each contributor had their own individual account and these accounts were portable.
* After a short phase-in period contributions were 8 per cent of gross income, 4 per cent by employees and 4 per cent by employers.
* The scheme was not taxable except for stamp and cheque duties.

National had 5 goverments to correct what you now blame Labour on if it was the real issue they never mentioned it and they certainly never did.

[husaberg]

No, No, please. Can you just come up with some defence other than "well the National party did worse" in a kind of whiney voice.

Say what........ it wasn't a defense it was an attack on their lack of actions.
you cant defend actually National in regards of the housing crisis they did nothing, shit they said didn't even know there was one.

[Ocean1]

All i am hearing is you being hypocritical............

................

Your propensity to mangle what you read into something that more or less supports your hugely distorted prejudices is a truly debilitating malady. May you one day find a cure.

Edit: Ah yes, the ninja post post edit.

National couldn't give a rats arse about retirement schemes.

What possible relevance does national's opinion have to the deleterious effects of labour's tax policy?

FFS, you're beyond help, a self professed labour apologist that can't actually advocate for his own politics without pointing in every other direction for the blame for it's historic failures.

[sidecar bob]

Say what........ it wasn't a defense it was an attack on their lack of actions.
you cant defend actually National in regards of the housing crisis they did nothing, shit they said didn't even know there was one.

Well fuck knows. All I can tell you is that the Clarke labour govt had their hand in my pocket up to my nutsack & I trod water for near a decade. Under national I did great & actually got ahead.
Whatever the fuck they did worked for me, probably because a didn't have my hand out for some free shit.

Oh, and hi mystery not logged on stalker guest that reads all my posts.

[husaberg]

Well fuck knows. All I can tell you is that the Clarke labour govt had their hand in my pocket up to my nutsack & I trod water for near a decade. Under national I did great & actually got ahead.
Whatever the fuck they did worked for me, probably because a didn't have my hand out for some free shit.

Oh, and hi mystery not logged on stalker guest that reads all my posts.

Is Helen Clarke code for Tracey?
If you were trading water in one of NZ biggest economic growth periods i don't think its really the govt fault.
All i can say is John keys policies cost 2000 jobs here out of a 30,000 people.

[jasonu]

Unprofessional at best.

[jasonu]

Oh, and hi mystery not logged on stalker guest that reads all my posts.

How do you know about this?

[sidecar bob]

Is Helen Clarke code for Tracey?
If you were trading water in one of NZ biggest economic growth periods i don't think its really the govt fault.
All i can say is John keys policies cost 2000 jobs here out of a 30,000 people.

Oh yeah, it was growth alright. And they paid for it by sticking their grubby fist into the coffers of small business.
It makes sense though, I meant the money is no use to them when I've worked for it & have saved it.
If that wasn't enough, they, with my money, gave all my staff another weeks holiday, bravo, everyone loved them, & it was a cheap way of getting drongos to vote you in for another term, but I was the one that paid. Fuck staff can be thick.
Lolly scrambles are cheap & easy to have when you're using someone else's lollies.
This pay hike thing for some public servants isint going to work out well. If you have three children & give two a dollar, it's not long before the third one finds out the other two got a dollar & lines up for his dollar, or goes on strike until he's treated equally.

[sidecar bob]

All i am hearing is you being hypocritical............

National couldn't give a rats arse about retirement schemes they voted against kiwisaver

they even tried to dismantle it

Perhaps because saving for your retirement, how much & wether to or not is a personal choice based on your future expectations.
I know of a number of older couples that when their KiwiSaver came due for withdrawal, bought brand new cars like they were lotto winners. I know this because each one told me directly. Some of them were people that I thought were far smarter.
All former wage earners & Labour supporters without doubt.
I could buy a brand new car too, but my 250 maxi scooter ticks all the boxes, particularly the one where I'm $600 a month up on fuel alone over driving a v8 BMW, thats $600 a month I can save for my retirement proper.
You can't fix stupid by making a law.

[husaberg]

Oh yeah, it was growth alright. And they paid for it by sticking their grubby fist into the coffers of small business.
It makes sense though, I meant the money is no use to them when I've worked for it & have saved it.
If that wasn't enough, they, with my money, gave all my staff another weeks holiday, bravo, everyone loved them, & it was a cheap way of getting drongos to vote you in for another term, but I was the one that paid. Fuck staff can be thick.
Lolly scrambles are cheap & easy to have when you're using someone else's lollies.
This pay hike thing for some public servants isint going to work out well. If you have three children & give two a dollar, it's not long before the third one finds out the other two got a dollar & lines up for his dollar, or goes on strike until he's treated equally.

Yet the key goverment got in on the promise of tax cuts for the voters that never happened
is promised Tax cuts for voters not a lolly scramble.
they did cut corporate tax and paid for that out of borrowing robbing peter to pay paul.
They then increased the gst which is a tax on everyone except those in business who can write off most as expenses.
Public servants want a wage rise as they have not had one in a decade. Unless you are a CEO or upper management in the public service they get amble ones yearly no matter how poorly they perform.
I was a bit pissed at the 4 weeks annual leave for everyone, but only because i always had it anyway.
In case you didnt notice all the compliance cost on small business increased under national.

Perhaps because saving for your retirement, how much & wether to or not is a personal choice based on your future expectations.
I know of a number of older couples that when their KiwiSaver came due for withdrawal, bought brand new cars like they were lotto winners. I know this because each one told me directly. Some of them were people that I thought were far smarter.
All former wage earners & Labour supporters without doubt.
I could buy a brand new car too, but my 250 maxi scooter ticks all the boxes, particularly the one where I'm $600 a month up on fuel alone over driving a v8 BMW, thats $600 a month I can save for my retirement proper.
You can't fix stupid by making a law.

Retirement savings is about person choice but as you point out a lot are not equipped to make good decisions. that's why having a scheme like kiwisaver is a better otion than nothing.
As i pointed out the 70's scheme Muldoon destroyed would have put kiwis on top of the world now rather than the bottom of the heap.
His reasoning was it was better for those to have a choice how they saved for retirement as they were adults. That hasnt really proven true has it.
Young kiwis are now at least saving something now. which is not something millennial's would do on their own is it.

[Ocean1]

Yet the key goverment

Aannnnd there it goes again. "But national..."

is promised Tax cuts for voters not a lolly scramble.

Not really, they're a way to wind massively disproportionate taxes back to where they were when they were introduced, before bracket creep put everyone's "contributions" up. Leave it long enough and everyone's paying the rate reserved for only rich pricks just a few years ago.

Retirement savings is about person choice but as you point out a lot are not equipped to make good decisions.

Back to front socialist drivel, it's sound decisions that equip you to save money, not the other way around.

[Voltaire]

Perhaps because saving for your retirement, how much & wether to or not is a personal choice based on your future expectations.
I know of a number of older couples that when their KiwiSaver came due for withdrawal, bought brand new cars like they were lotto winners. I know this because each one told me directly. Some of them were people that I thought were far smarter.
All former wage earners & Labour supporters without doubt.
I could buy a brand new car too, but my 250 maxi scooter ticks all the boxes, particularly the one where I'm $600 a month up on fuel alone over driving a v8 BMW, thats $600 a month I can save for my retirement proper.
You can't fix stupid by making a law.

I was working out how many flat whites I could have in retirement, but if I retired today and cashed up my KS this would do...


Probably just end up driving my Kombi Pickup around.

( signed mystery lurker who can't be arsed logging in on his phone)

[oldrider]

I have one of those, I got it when I retired had it painted with invisible paint just to keep the inquisitive at bay.

Unfortunately my wife borrowed it and now we have no idea where it is and the are not interested.

Some things require a little more planning!