The 2017 Election Thread

[husaberg]

Looks to me like Orks gets less than their share of tax.

I notice too that the west coast gets more than southland, which is twice the size. Maybe they don't whine enough.

thats only the latest est its not the last 10 years or 100 years.
The regions have been bled dry for donkeys years.
For instance every tn of coal through port Lyttelton was levied were never seen a cent other than wages the rest went to the crown same as the wood.
Then there is the fact we are 80% DOC owned. with state highways used by millions of tourists per year should we pay for that ourselves.
BTW 2g per person is 60G thats right te whole of the WC got an extra $60,000 . wow i wonder how much of that was for Cyclone damage.

[Ocean1]

thats only the latest est its not the last 10 years or 100 years.
The regions have been bled dry for donkeys years.
For instance every tn of coal through port Lyttelton was levied were never seen a cent other than wages the rest went to the crown same as the wood.
Then there is the fact we are 80% DOC owned. with state highways used by millions of tourists per year should we pay for that ourselves.

Yeah I can see it still upsets you.

Fact remains: Orks taxpayers provide more tax than is spent there.
And your neighbourhood benefits from more spending than their tax contributions provide for.
Which leaves you in no position to be pointing any bones, mate.

[husaberg]

Yeah I can see it still upsets you.

Fact remains: Orks taxpayers provide more tax than is spent there.
And your neighbourhood benefits from more spending than their tax contributions provide for.
Which leaves you in no position to be pointing any bones, mate.

I doesnt upset me at all. We have a tiny population that lost thousands of jobs most of which were high paying jobs 100K plus
Unfortunately what your figure dont include is the royalties for gold or coal to the crown.
Gold we mine $100 million worth a year here which is an extra 1 million in royalties.
Add in 2,000,000 tons of coal at $50 at ton that equals 100 million
so 51 million / 30,000 people equals $3366 per person. Tax thats not in your figures though.
So your facts dont stand up to serious scrutiny.

[Ocean1]

I doesnt upset me at all. We have a tiny population that lost thousands of jobs most of which were high paying jobs 100K plus
Unfortunately what your figure dont include is the royalties for gold or coal to the crown.
Gold we mine $100 million worth a year here which is an extra 1 million in royalties.
Add in 2,000,000 tons of coal at $50 at ton that equals 100 million
so 51 million / 30,000 people equals $3366 per person. Tax thats not in your figures though.
So your facts dont stand up to serious scrutiny.

Nor is the tax companies pay in Auckland, so the comparison remains valid: Auckland taxpayers earn more than they spend, West Coast taxpayers spend more than they earn.

But go ahead and add company tax to both and let me know how that works out, I'm genuinely curious.

And I still reckon Southlanders are fucking hard done by.

[husaberg]

Nor is the tax companies pay in Auckland, so the comparison remains valid: Auckland taxpayers earn more than they spend, West Coast taxpayers spend more than they earn.

But go ahead and add company tax to both and let me know how that works out, I'm genuinely curious.

And I still reckon Southlanders are fucking hard done by.

these are not company tax they are crown royalties cant you see the difference.
Auckland companies do not pay crown royalties unless their is some extraction industry their.
The provinces have had their resources mined by the crown for the crown since NZ was formed, this is the source of NZ's wealth.
Even if you did it on company tax ask yourself where the revenue was gathered (hint its not form Auckland)
Besides we both know ther big companies in NZ dont pay f-all tax.
Southland got to keep their smelter the whole of NZ paid for it, also not in your figures, av Kiwis have given the smelter basically free power for generations.
As soon as they were due to start paying market rates after 30-40 years of effectively paying nothing Rio tinto sad they were going to shut down National caved and we all paid.

[Ocean1]

these are not company tax they are crown royalties cant you see the difference.
Auckland companies do not pay crown royalties

Obviously a very important and special source of revenue, disproportionately far more significant and valuable than any revenue stream mere Auckland bourgeois corporates (thieving rich pricks, to a man) could hope to produce.


Right?

[husaberg]

Obviously a very important and special source of revenue, disproportionately far more significant and valuable than any revenue stream mere Auckland bourgeois corporates (thieving rich pricks, to a man) could hope to produce.


Right?

In another 30 years NZ will have little primary industries other than farming and horticulture plus tourism lets see how the cities survive on selling each other lattes and burgers then.
Why not reply to the whole post.
I guess you cant fathom the source of NZ wealth and GDP is not derived form the cities but from the provences. The cities live feeding on the scraps.

[Ocean1]

In another 30 yers NZ with have little primary industries other than farming and horticulture plus tourism lets see how the cities survive on selling each other lattes and burgers then.
Why not reply to the whole post.
I guess you cant fathom the source of NZ wealth and GDP is not derived form the cities but from the provences. The cities live feeding on the scraps.

30 years eh? You sure? I mean cities have been around longer than recorded history, 30 years seems a tad abrupt dunit? Still, whatever, you can't get much further from civilisation, so I'm sure that in 30 years you'll be fine.

I did reply to the whole post, you ninja edited it after the fact. Again.

However, now that you've done so, wealth, in fact is derived from just one source: it's the product of individuals generating shit other people are prepared to pay for. The correct term for the multitude of alternative methods of acquiring wealth is theft.

[husaberg]

30 years eh? You sure? I mean cities have been around longer than recorded history, 30 years seems a tad abrupt dunit? Still, whatever, you can't get much further from civilisation, so I'm sure that in 30 years you'll be fine.

I did reply to the whole post, you ninja edited it after the fact. Again.

However, now that you've done so, wealth, in fact is derived from just one source: it's the product of individuals generating shit other people are prepared to pay for. The correct term for the multitude of alternative methods of acquiring wealth is theft.

Yeah some have some have come and gone as the resources were plundered.
the 30 years refers to the removal of the primary industries from the rural areas other than farming and horticulture.
generating shit requires a resource to tap into, if you seriously thing the cities will survive on selling ideas alone you are mistaken.
Take a look around who is buying the breweries the dairy farms the wineries and the meat plants even the dairy companies.

[Ocean1]

Yeah some have some have come and gone as the resources were plundered.
the 30 years refers to the removal of the primary industries from the rural areas other than farming and horticulture.
generating shit requires a resource to tap into, if you seriously thing the cities will survive on selling ideas alone you are mistaken.
Take a look around who is buying the breweries the dairy farms the wineries and the meat plants even the dairy companies.

Plundered eh? Last time I looked plundering was mostly a rural pastime.
And this removing of industry, capitalist plot I take it?
Correct, but not all resources are dug up from a paddock, and I may be mistaken, but by far the most powerful growth industries over the last few decades have been based on ideas, not turnips.
People with money to invest. Which is bad, right?

[husaberg]

Plundered eh? Last time I looked plundering was mostly a rural pastime.
And this removing of industry, capitalist plot I take it?
Correct, but not all resources are dug up from a paddock, and I may be mistaken, but by far the most powerful growth industries over the last few decades have been based on ideas, not turnips.
People with money to invest. Which is bad, right?

See thats where you actually don't understand agriculture or the other primary industries, agriculture existence relies on its sustainability and efficiency improvements and technology.
Those powerful growth industries are really not benefiting NZ much though are they, plus any real success stories soon move overseas.
Plundering is not a rural pastime it never was. Modern Plundering of resources is an urban innovation. Whole entire empires were built on it.
Concrete towers are not sustainable. most pollution is from cities most waste is from cities
Investment is not a bad thing but when overseas interests own or control the whole supply chain it results in all profits heading overseas.

[jasonu]

Thats not an answer to why so desperately the rest of NZ needs Auckland to survive.

What is it that is so critical Auckland produces that the rest of the counties cant live without or import from Aussie, China, Taiwan. Korea anyway?

As you already admitted the supplies are not obtained from Auckland but the regions.
as is the power, water, gas so it seems you even acknowledge its not the rest of the country that needs Auckland but its actually Auckland that needs the rest of the country.
Especially considering most of what is produced in the regions as primary production is actually exported.

Do you think the whole country revolves around the likes of TeKuiti?

[Voltaire]

I go to Fonterra's head office once a week in Auckland.

They do a very nice cappuccino with cinnamon and the carrot cake with chocolate is very tasty and all for less than $15 !!!!

I heard a rumour that the grass is made into milk via some sort of animal?????

What next, using lumps of stone dug out of the ground to heat your house

Off for another day at the coal face ( should be updated to screen time) in the office.

[Ocean1]

See thats where you actually don't understand agriculture or the other primary industries, agriculture existence relies on its sustainability and efficiency improvements and technology.
Those powerful growth industries are really not benefiting NZ much though are they, plus any real success stories soon move overseas.
Plundering is not a rural pastime it never was. Modern Plundering of resources is an urban innovation. Whole entire empires were built on it.
Concrete towers are not sustainable. most pollution is from cities most waste is from cities
Investment is not a bad thing but when overseas interests own or control the whole supply chain it results in all profits heading overseas.

Which differs from any other sort of productive industry how?
Yeah, in exchange for cash, which is sort of the point of the whole exercise.
Godit, city slicker bad, salt of the earth cocky good. Obvious now that you've pointed that out.
Which is really really weird, it's almost like most people live in cities. Bizarre.
Yeah, people should learn that simply purchasing assets doesn't mean they actually own them, or should expect expect any return from them at all. Capitalist pricks, eh?

[Ocean1]

I go to Fonterra's head office once a week in Auckland.

They do a very nice cappuccino with cinnamon and the carrot cake with chocolate is very tasty and all for less than $15 !!!!

I hope you're having them invoice you for that coffee in accordance with your Standard Terms of Purchase of Goods and Services? So that you can process their (somewhat bizarre) request for payment appropriately, in the fullness of a time somewhat removed from this exact moment but not less than three calendar months from the (unfortunately) delayed receipt and (understandably) convoluted processing of such. Along with the standard pro-forma offer of a suitably secured loan to tide them over until that happy event might eventually transpire?