The 2017 Election Thread

[Voltaire]

In Amsterdam, scooters with a certain colour number plate which are limited to 30kmh may use the cycle ways.
Beautiful smooth running city full of windswept interesting people mingling all sorts of economical personal transport with trams.
These Axiam microcars are plentiful too.

My recall of Amsterdam was being hassled a lot by people trying to sell me drugs, drug cafes, and the interesting red light area...oh and really crap beer.

Still as an old fella you probably did not notice any of that

It was mainly bicycles then, the locals must be getting lazy like everywhere else

[sidecar bob]

Yep. Fuck the transport tell us more about the windswept interesting people...

You pretty much summed it up in a nutshell with your pic.
I'd say it's the number one destination if you're on a milf hunt. Fortunately I took my own.

[sidecar bob]

My recall of Amsterdam was being hassled a lot by people trying to sell me drugs, drug cafes, and the interesting red light area...oh and really crap beer.

Still as an old fella you probably did not notice any of that

It was mainly bicycles then, the locals must be getting lazy like everywhere else

I had my own personal Dutch tour guide, Kees Indabowl as you can see by his machine, he offers drugs advice.
Lovely chap that knew all the nice spots, including Heineken Expierence museum, where we expierenced Heineken.
You too can meet him at the Suzuki series this year, riding the Tracey Bryan owned pink sidecar again.

[jasonu]

You pretty much summed it up in a nutshell with your pic.
I'd say it's the number one destination if you're on a milf hunt. Fortunately I took my own.

That’s like taking your own beer to a bar.

[Ocean1]

Sounds like you want to set up a state run petrol company comrade.
almost like a petrol version of kiwibank
It kind of goes against free market ideals though
Didnt late 70 or early 80's national freeze prices

Yep, that's what I'd do. Set up a state owned entity competing with an unfair advantage, charging just enough to break even to force an existing monopoly to reduce it's prices to somewhere near the cost to supply, plus a reasonable profit.

Kiwibank shows exactly what the result is when you get any normal political party doing that: a state owned entity with an unfair advantage charging exactly what the existing market already does, providing poorer service in the process. No government can resist the temptation to simply take the cash and divert it to their pet projects. In the long term that behaviour not only fails to eliminate a monopoly, it actually reinforces it.

Spot the difference? A free market remains the only one that maintains fair prices, you just have to eliminate barriers to competition, in other words keep the market free. Somehow the commerce commission seems to actively prevent competition by supporting monopolies and penalising so called dumping. I'd be sacking their arses too.

[sidecar bob]

That’s like taking your own beer to a bar.

But if you really like that particular beer then it's not such a problem.

[jasonu]

But if you really like that particular beer then it's not such a problem.

Fair point old chap.

[husaberg]

Yep, that's what I'd do. Set up a state owned entity competing with an unfair advantage, charging just enough to break even to force an existing monopoly to reduce it's prices to somewhere near the cost to supply, plus a reasonable profit.

Kiwibank shows exactly what the result is when you get any normal political party doing that: a state owned entity with an unfair advantage charging exactly what the existing market already does, providing poorer service in the process. No government can resist the temptation to simply take the cash and divert it to their pet projects. In the long term that behaviour not only fails to eliminate a monopoly, it actually reinforces it.

Spot the difference? A free market remains the only one that maintains fair prices, you just have to eliminate barriers to competition, in other words keep the market free. Somehow the commerce commission seems to actively prevent competition by supporting monopolies and penalising so called dumping. I'd be sacking their arses too.

No sorry i dont notice the deference only you appear not to be being subjective in your reasoning.
Because 1 Kiwibank tops the polls in customer satisfaction.
http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/75...s-201803010113
2 Kiwibanks presence although they are not always the highest or lowest rates respectively burt they are normally the top 1-3 for savings or borrowing rates suggests their influence keeps the others more competitive.
Free markets dont always maintain the fair prices the fuel industry is an example you used as to why this is not true.
I do however aggree as i believe the Commerce commission is not really effective.

[Swoop]

That doesn't at all sound at all like the rest of the country desperately needs Auckland...

You'd be surprised.
The population wouldn't know where to get Lion Red from.

Sounds like you want to set up a state run petrol company comrade.
almost like a petrol version of kiwibank

So, using the Kiwiwank blueprint this new "petrol company" would set up shop in another business' property and begin pumping their product at the inconvenience of the property owner and its customers.
Fucking Kiwiwank can piss off and open their own bloody shops and stop leeching off of the Postshop locations.

[husaberg]

You'd be surprised.
The population wouldn't know where to get Lion Red from.

the population would not care where lion red was made but might prefer to have a real beer instead.
ps there is nothing to stop the japanese owners moving that production to japan or china

So, using the Kiwiwank blueprint this new "petrol company" would set up shop in another business' property and begin pumping their product at the inconvenience of the property owner and its customers.
Fucking Kiwiwank can piss off and open their own bloody shops and stop leeching off of the Postshop locations.

I remember when it was postbank those post office locations.
the new petrol company was Oceans idea.

[Voltaire]

And Gib Board.

[Ocean1]

No sorry i dont notice the deference only you appear not to be being subjective in your reasoning.
Because 1 Kiwibank tops the polls in customer satisfaction.
http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/75...s-201803010113
2 Kiwibanks presence although they are not always the highest or lowest rates respectively burt they are normally the top 1-3 for savings or borrowing rates suggests their influence keeps the others more competitive.
Free markets dont always maintain the fair prices the fuel industry is an example you used as to why this is not true.
I do however aggree as i believe the Commerce commission is not really effective.

And if I could be bothered looking I'm pretty sure I could find surveys showing they were shit. I moved my business accounts to from ANZ to Kiwibank about 6 years ago, by that small sample their service is fucking appaling. Also, given that the govt pulls every string in that market they should be able to charge less, but as you noted: they don't. Which just proves my observation: given the choice of regulating the market by offering a competitively priced alternative or simply matching the existing market they just took the cash.

A free market is the absolute definition of fair. It involves nothing more complicated than both buyer and seller agreeing to respectively purchase and supply at a mutually agreed price, without outside influence or collusion. If you think the fuel industry represents anything close to a free market then you need to revise your definition. The natural barriers to market entry there are massive, but even then Gull, by far the smallest vendor, using in part their competitor's logistics and in theory least able to leverage economies of scale (in an industry where a third of the retail price is logistics) are the cheapest. That alone proves the others are either actively colluding on retail prices or are all exactly equally inept in managing their businesses. I'll just leave Occam's razor lying right here.

[husaberg]

And if I could be bothered looking I'm pretty sure I could find surveys showing they were shit. I moved my business accounts to from ANZ to Kiwibank about 6 years ago, by that small sample their service is fucking appaling. Also, given that the govt pulls every string in that market they should be able to charge less, but as you noted: they don't. Which just proves my observation: given the choice of regulating the market by offering a competitively priced alternative or simply matching the existing market they just took the cash.

A free market is the absolute definition of fair. It involves nothing more complicated than both buyer and seller agreeing to respectively purchase and supply at a mutually agreed price, without outside influence or collusion. If you think the fuel industry represents anything close to a free market then you need to revise your definition. The natural barriers to market entry there are massive, but even then Gull, by far the smallest vendor, using in part their competitor's logistics and in theory least able to leverage economies of scale (in an industry where a third of the retail price is logistics) are the cheapest. That alone proves the others are either actively colluding on retail prices or are all exactly equally inept in managing their businesses. I'll just leave Occam's razor lying right here.

Only you haven't but still state you are right, i went back over the last 4 years and kiwibank is consistently at of the top ranked banks or within the top couple
ANZ is consistently ranked the worst or close to the Worst
So you assessment that kiwibank is a poor operater is not borne out by facts only by your limited opinion and experience.
Goverments dont pull everything string in the market to support Kiwibank I would suggest that certainly the previous 3 goverments never did as they didnt agree with the formation of Kiwibank.
If the governments were somehow pulling strings to support Kiwibank all the GOV departments and CRI and SOE's's etc would be told to use kiwibank.
This is not the case at all as i know for a fact 3 SOE's dont use kiwibank.

The fuel industry is proof the free market is not always the best solution for a captive market. It's clear there is collusion with the fuel companies yet its deemed a free market.
its also proof that people are lazy when it comes to saving money same as when it comes to electricity prices.

What i find interesting is the reserve bank is attempting to tell the government what to do.
Funny when they are the ones that should be lowering interest rates rather then telling the government to lower an individual tax.

[Ocean1]

Only you haven't but still state you are right,

https://www.interest.co.nz/personal-...nk-surge-cases

Goverments dont pull everything string in the market to support Kiwibank I would suggest that certainly the previous 3 goverments never did as they didnt agree with the formation of Kiwibank.
If the governments were somehow pulling strings to support Kiwibank all the GOV departments and CRI and SOE's's etc would be told to use kiwibank.
This is not the case at all as i know for a fact 3 SOE's dont use kiwibank.

So having a ready made outlet in NZ post shops isn't an advantage? As for the rest, it was my contention that if they wanted to regulate the market then they have plenty of ways they could use Kiwibank and undercut the Aussie monopoly, and like I also pointed out, and you confirm: they don't, they'd rather just stand in line at the trough.

The fuel industry is proof the free market is not always the best solution for a captive market. It's clear there is collusion with the fuel companies yet its deemed a free market.
its also proof that people are lazy when it comes to saving money same as when it comes to electricity prices.

Mate, a market where there's clear collusion is not a free market, that'd be a complete oxymoron.
Conversely, if it's a free market then it's openly competitive, there isn't any collusion. Your proof... isn't.

What i find interesting is the reserve bank is attempting to tell the government what to do.
Funny when they are the ones that should be lowering interest rates rather then telling the government to lower an individual tax.

Well that's their job. Just as it was their job to advise national what effect their policies would likely have.
And it's pretty obvious that, firstly labour desperately need that advice, secondly that they don't appreciate any advice where it conflicts with their stated policy objectives, and thirdly that therefore they don't give a fuck what the consequences of their policies are. They're fucking socialists ffs, their world view is completely blind to the root causes that create money, they's far more concerned about spending other people's.

[husaberg]

https://www.interest.co.nz/personal-...nk-surge-cases

you claimed they werre the worst performed bank i posted information that showed they were by far not the worst performed bank.
then you posted a story that shows an increase in compalints in one year
The number of complaints is still lower than the other banks Did you not know that or understand that?

So having a ready made outlet in NZ post shops isn't an advantage? As for the rest, it was my contention that if they wanted to regulate the market then they have plenty of ways they could use Kiwibank and undercut the Aussie monopoly, and like I also pointed out, and you confirm: they don't, they'd rather just stand in line at the trough.

So do You mean to say that just because burger king has an outlets at Shell gives them a advantage?
No you said they have an unfair advantage this is not the case.
It is not the goverments job to interfer with the "free market.".
Kiwi bank has incresed the competition.If they put in more regulation you would be moaning that the commies were being comunists interfering in a free market.

Mate, a market where there's clear collusion is not a free market, that'd be a complete oxymoron.
Conversely, if it's a free market then it's openly competitive, there isn't any collusion. Your proof... isn't.

The fuel industry operates in a free market, you by uyour own admission aggree that it isn't working despite it operating in a free market.
the fuel companies are profiteering as its a captive market and they are operating in an enviroment where they colude to improve profits.

Well that's their job. Just as it was their job to advise national what effect their policies would likely have.
And it's pretty obvious that, firstly labour desperately need that advice, secondly that they don't appreciate any advice where it conflicts with their stated policy objectives, and thirdly that therefore they don't give a fuck what the consequences of their policies are. They're fucking socialists ffs, their world view is completely blind to the root causes that create money, they's far more concerned about spending other people's.

they were not giving advice they were telling them what to do. That is not the reserve banks job description.
As for needing advice why is it that they have a surplus despite all the crap national tried to say how the budget never balanced?
why have we just had the biggested quartely GDP risse in years?
which was actually twice what the reverve bank predicted?

Annual GDP growth for the year ended June 2018 was 2.7%.
The size of the economy in current prices was $289 billion.
Growth was broad-based, with 15 of 16 industries recording higher production. Mining was the only industry to decline, reflecting one-off factors.
“Once again service industries led growth. Goods-producing and primary industries also saw rises this quarter,” Stats NZ's national accounts senior manager Susan Hollows said.
The largest contribution to growth came from agriculture, up 4.2%.
Growth of 1.0% in the service industries was broad-based, with all industries recording a lift.

The ball is also firmly in the court of the RBNZ to re-examine rather closely their economic forecasting model as their GDP growth forecast for the June quarter (+0.50%) was precisely half the actual outcome!
A continuing positive for the Kiwi dollar from the stronger than expected GDP growth result will be a revision upwards in the RBNZ’s inflation forecasts for the next 18 months.
It will be interesting to see if Governor Adrian Orr changes his wording or inferences in this week’s OCR review statement. It is positive for the Kiwi dollar if the RBNZ are forced by the stronger economic data to increase their inflation forecasts and bring forward the timing of the first OCR increase (having just pushed it out further a month ago).
The Reserve Bank of Australia are stating that their next OCR move will be upwards. In contrast, the RBNZ appears to be giving equal waiting to a move up and a move down.
Given the the positive momentum in the rural economy right now (forestry, fishing, dairy, beef, sheepmeat, horticulture, wine and Aucklanders selling up their houses and shifting south), there is a real risk that the RBNZ have made a misjudgement on the economy and inflation. Therefore, sometime before the end of 2018 they will be forced to change their tune.
It is not unreasonable to expect to see the Kiwi dollar appreciating another two cents just on the back of this potential RBNZ flip-flop alone.