The 2017 Election Thread

[AllanB]

If it was oil that was there, ownership would be sorted out pretty quick.

That's some truth.

Then again there would be a decade of court claims by the tribes if it was oil.

Probably will be over the water tax.


What's the farmers up for in a couple weeks? water tax, land tax, higher income tax (maybe not if they earn F-all after paying taxes).


Mind you I don't buy into Bills 'cleaning the rivers' slow approach - make it happen faster as once they are fucked it's a hard road to get them back.

[Ocean1]

I just see it as a resource and an increasingly scarce resource that NZ can make a lot of money from. I see it more of a capitalist venture than a form of socialism. It could be used to pay off our debt for example. The stuff is just sitting there waiting to be exploited.

Yeah, I know. Except, look out your window, how scarce is that shit overflowing your drains, now?

Sorry mate, I'll just stick to the incorruptible test that says that if you didn't create it then you don't own it. Anything else is open to interpretation, and it's never your interpretation, so if you do actually create shit and actually do own it then you always lose.

If it was oil that was there, ownership would be sorted out pretty quick.

Any idea how much of the price you pay for oil products is actually represented by the cost of the oil?

Pro tip: it's well less than the price of that bottle of water in the supermarket.

The rest is all supply infrastructure and tax.

[Voltaire]

Yeah, I know. Except, look out your window, how scarce is that shit overflowing your drains, now?

Sorry mate, I'll just stick to the incorruptible test that says that if you didn't create it then you don't own it. Anything else is open to interpretation, and it's never your interpretation, so if you do actually create shit and actually do own it then you always lose.



Any idea how much of the price you pay for oil products is actually represented by the cost of the oil?

Pro tip: it's well less than the price of that bottle of water in the supermarket.

The rest is all supply infrastructure and tax.

You can apply that to most things. Fish, wine.... dare I say it milk.why do we drink it anyway...weird if you think about it.

[Ocean1]

That's some truth.

Then again there would be a decade of court claims by the tribes if it was oil.

Probably will be over the water tax.


What's the farmers up for in a couple weeks? water tax, land tax, higher income tax (maybe not if they earn F-all after paying taxes).


Mind you I don't buy into Bills 'cleaning the rivers' slow approach - make it happen faster as once they are fucked it's a hard road to get them back.

I agree. So regulate to reduce what causes it. But that's got sweet fuck all to do with whether or not you remove 0.0000000002% of the genuinely epic quantities of water flowing from the Southern Alps before it arrives at the ocean. That's just simple, unattractive envy.

[Ocean1]

You can apply that to most things. Fish, wine.... dare I say it milk.why do we drink it anyway...weird if you think about it.

No, you can't, distribution and tax is rarely such a huge percentage of the cost of supply.

Funnily enough it's often actual production, bizarre, I know, but making shit actually creates value. Never catch on of course.

[Woodman]

Yeah, I know. Except, look out your window, how scarce is that shit overflowing your drains, now?

Sorry mate, I'll just stick to the incorruptible test that says that if you didn't create it then you don't own it. Anything else is open to interpretation, and it's never your interpretation, so if you do actually create shit and actually do own it then you always lose.



Any idea how much of the price you pay for oil products is actually represented by the cost of the oil?

Pro tip: it's well less than the price of that bottle of water in the supermarket.

The rest is all supply infrastructure and tax.

Can't say that I understand your point of view at all, but its yours and you are entitled to it. Crude oil is about 33cents per litre currently. NZ could get that for our water. I think the powers that be are too chickenshit to start charging foreign corporations for it due to the shitfight money grab that wil happen internally.
Actually, would that fight be enough of an effort/cost to make you change your mind about selling it?

[Ocean1]

Can't say that I understand your point of view at all, but its yours and you are entitled to it. Crude oil is about 33cents per litre currently. NZ could get that for our water. I think the powers that be are too chickenshit to start charging foreign corporations for it due to the shitfight money grab that wil happen internally.
Actually, would that fight be enough of an effort/cost to make you change your mind about selling it?

Would extra cash change my perception of how basic ethics work?

No.

[Woodman]

Would extra cash change my perception of how basic ethics work?

No.

What about the millions of marketing dollars spent on promoting NZs clean green image that adds value to the water? probably the same clean green image that the people who sell our water now are using to add value to it. How much do they pay us for that privilege?

[Ocean1]

What about the millions of marketing dollars spent on promoting NZs clean green image that adds value to the water? probably the same clean green image that the people who sell our water now are using to add value to it. How much do they pay us for that privilege?

Those foreign bastards are spending nothing on marketing? Completely failing to promote NZ's clean green image in the process? The cunts!

So who, actually did pay for all that marketing? I suspect that if you could be bothered rooting out the details you'd find almost every instance of such advertising since day one has been commercially funded. And yet you're blaming them for cashing in on "our" efforts?

Here's how you do it properly, dude: Go float your own enterprise, navigate the rort that is the RMA and get local authority approvals, (a substantial backhander probably helps), build your own multi million dollar bottling facility, negotiate the off shore distribution agreements, hire a few dozen staff, pay for the first year or so's outgoings with zero income and THEN tell us how well you're ripping all them Kiwis off, eh?

[Voltaire]

Foreign companies seem very good at minimising their taxable exposure....http://insights.nzherald.co.nz/artic...gap/:rolleyes:

[Ocean1]

Foreign companies seem very good at minimising their taxable exposure....http://insights.nzherald.co.nz/artic...gap/:rolleyes:

Link broke.

But, what was that old saw about "no representation without taxation"?

Doesn't seem to work the other way around, though...

[Woodman]

Those foreign bastards are spending nothing on marketing? Completely failing to promote NZ's clean green image in the process? The cunts!

So who, actually did pay for all that marketing? I suspect that if you could be bothered rooting out the details you'd find almost every instance of such advertising since day one has been commercially funded. And yet you're blaming them for cashing in on "our" efforts?

Here's how you do it properly, dude: Go float your own enterprise, navigate the rort that is the RMA and get local authority approvals, (a substantial backhander probably helps), build your own multi million dollar bottling facility, negotiate the off shore distribution agreements, hire a few dozen staff, pay for the first year or so's outgoings with zero income and THEN tell us how well you're ripping all them Kiwis off, eh?

Didn't say they were ripping us off, ripping off would mean that someone is being misled and that isn't happening, rather just can't understand why the water is available free. What other resource in other countries can be had without some form of compensatory payment? Getting a NZ company to start up a bottling plant is a great idea, government backhanders and concubines all good with me if thats what it takes.

[Voltaire]

Link broke.

But, what was that old saw about "no representation without taxation"?

Doesn't seem to work the other way around, though...

That's an American Myth about how they perceived the British treated them... a damn sight better than other countries they raped and pillaged. Clearly they learnt off the masters but not as successful with the implementation

[Ocean1]

That's an American Myth about how they perceived the British treated them... a damn sight better than other countries they raped and pillaged. Clearly they learnt off the masters but not as successful with the implementation

Aye. My point was there probably should be a link between taxing any entity and giving them a say in how their money is spent.

You'd never sell that here, but that's the point: there's plenty of examples where minorities are required to pay for shit by the majority. Nobody I know would call that fair or reasonable, but those same people will continue to vote themselves other peoples money. And now that you mention it, that other form of slavery wasn't voted out, it took a civil war.

I suspect that "broken link" was in fact a paywall. Which means you're subscribed to teh Harrold?

I'm telling Swoop.

[Ocean1]

Didn't say they were ripping us off, ripping off would mean that someone is being misled and that isn't happening, rather just can't understand why the water is available free. What other resource in other countries can be had without some form of compensatory payment? Getting a NZ company to start up a bottling plant is a great idea, government backhanders and concubines all good with me if thats what it takes.

So why don't you do it?