The 2017 Election Thread

[husaberg]

Yes but your deduction (money off your tax) is only about $1 for every $4 you spend.
Spending money to save on your tax doesn't work.

The only thing you have shown is you don?t know what you are talking about.

Well do go on then, explain why so many people invest so much money in investment property in NZ. From all over the world.
Explain why farmers strive to buy land instead of sharemilking in NZ where the ROI is so much better with share-milking. Than with farm ownership.
As you clearly are too american. I will give you a hint, we use property to hide income and to defer tax. Exactly the total opposite to what you stated.
You can build capital with investment in assets without paying tax you can continue to do this perpetually then cash in the assets without having to pay the tax on the increase in value.
Another reason is you can use it to hide your own living expenses and property maintenance within your rental business. ownership aloows much better write offs and write downs.
Simply put if you don't invest the profit, its treated as income which is taxed. This is a dead loss, but if you invest it you get to keep and not give it to the government. While at the same time building a asset, that has no capital gains tax so its profits are also not taxed.
Do i need to use smaller words?
Because its so simple even Katman would understand the principals?

This is the cornerstone of how a heck of a lot of Kiwis and people from around the world build assets.

[jasonu]

Well do go on then, explain why so many people invest so much money in investment property in NZ. From all over the world.
Explain why farmers strive to buy land instead of sharemilking in NZ where the ROI is so much better with share-milking. Than with farm ownership.
As you clearly are too american. I will give you a hint, we use property to hide income and to defer tax. Exactly the total opposite to what you stated.
You can build capital with investment in assets without paying tax you can continue to do this perpetually then cash in the assets without having to pay the tax on the increase in value.
Another reason is you can use it to hide your own living expenses and property maintenance within your rental business. ownership aloows much better write offs and write downs.
Simply put if you don't invest the profit, its treated as income which is taxed. This is a dead loss, but if you invest it you get to keep and not give it to the government. While at the same time building a asset, that has no capital gains tax so its profits are also not taxed.
Do i need to use smaller words?
Because its so simple even Katman would understand the principals?

This is the cornerstone of how a heck of a lot of Kiwis and people from around the world build assets.

So you?re saying farmers are all tax dodging scammers.

[Katman]

Because its so simple even Katman would understand the principals?

Fixated, much?

[sidecar bob]

Fixated, much?

Jessica Mutch?

[husaberg]

So you?re saying farmers are all tax dodging scammers.

No i clearly didnt its within the rules its not just Farmers all the property investors do the same. Most of the world does where they can.
Its tax minimisation. dont confuse it with what your president who refuses to release his tax returns does.
Its also shows what you said was 100% wrong btw.

[sidecar bob]

Well do go on then, explain why so many people invest so much money in investment property in NZ. From all over the world.
Explain why farmers strive to buy land instead of sharemilking in NZ where the ROI is so much better with share-milking. Than with farm ownership.
As you clearly are too american. I will give you a hint, we use property to hide income and to defer tax. Exactly the total opposite to what you stated.
You can build capital with investment in assets without paying tax you can continue to do this perpetually then cash in the assets without having to pay the tax on the increase in value.
Another reason is you can use it to hide your own living expenses and property maintenance within your rental business. ownership aloows much better write offs and write downs.
Simply put if you don't invest the profit, its treated as income which is taxed. This is a dead loss, but if you invest it you get to keep and not give it to the government. While at the same time building a asset, that has no capital gains tax so its profits are also not taxed.
Do i need to use smaller words?
Because its so simple even Katman would understand the principals?

This is the cornerstone of how a heck of a lot of Kiwis and people from around the world build assets.

There may be all that, but other reasons To invest in property is to inflation proof savings & create a passive income so You don't have to go to work to get money, although You may choose to for your own feeling of usefulness.
Also, to make sure that in the event of your untimely demise, that your wife can live a comfortable life, with work optional, and so your kids may get something eventually when they are much older, so they are able to live comfortably in their middle, later life.
Everything else is inconsequential & most of the stuff you put there I wouldn't have a clue about.
Also "hidden income" is no more use than drug money, as non taxable income can't be used for anything other than wasting on toys & rubbish. It has no paper value as a wedge with a bank to obtain a loan to purchase further properties.
If it doesn't exist on paper, then it doesn't exist to a bank.

[husaberg]

There may be all that, but the only reasons I invest in property is to inflation proof my savings & create a passive income so I don't have to go to work to get money, although I may choose to for my own feeling of usefulness.
Also, to make sure that in the event of my untimely demise, that my wife can live a comfortable life, with work optional, and so my kids may get something eventually when they are much older, so they are able to live comfortably in their middle, later life.
Everything else is inconsequential & most of the stuff you put there I wouldn't have a clue about.
I'm at a point where the next generation will be selling my portfolio, if at all, so CGT is a mute point for me.

The point i was making is if you have not have invested it in something akin to property it would have been treated as being income and taxed accordingly. I struggle to believe you never thought of it,and that that had nothing to do with the decision of doing this rather than simply putting it in the bank and being taxed twice on it. its one of the reasons people were so heavily investing in NZ property.
I say this as we have had discussions before about it. On this very thread.
That said i feel the Auckland housing bubble may burst eventually.
Also in a lot of cases rural farm land prices are over inflated as well.

[sidecar bob]

The point i was making is if you have not have invested it in something akin to property it would have been treated as being income and taxed accordingly. I dont believe you never thought of it,and that that had nothing to do with the decision of doing this rather than simply putting it in the bank and being taxed twice on it.

I think you have over estimated how smart I am.
The smartest guy I know invests in property, lovely chap that's always got five minutes to spare for a chat, I'm just copying him.

[sidecar bob]

I say this as we have had discussions before about it. On this very thread.
That said i feel the Auckland housing bubble may burst eventually.

Now there's a term I find particularly irritating, "housing bubble" emotional hyper babble, giving the impression that a market can do nothing other than dissapeared into a drop of dew under its own pressure.
So there may be fluctuations, would be odd if there wasn't, but burst? What the fuck? Is everyone going to move out & live in a station wagon?
There seems to be this mentality that property markets are either boom or bust, rather than bob around a bit like any market does. If you can look around the sides of the high emotion attatched to it there's a great opportunity to do well out of those that can't & make great long term investments that are secure & lucrative.

[husaberg]

Now there's a term I find particularly irritating, "housing bubble" emotional hyper babble, giving the impression that a market can do nothing other than dissapeared into a drop of dew under its own pressure.
So there may be fluctuations, would be odd if there wasn't, but burst? What the fuck? Is everyone going to move out & live in a station wagon?
There seems to be this mentality that property markets are either boom or bust, rather than bob around a bit like any market does. If you can look around the sides of the high emotion attatched to it there's a great opportunity to do well out of those that can't & make great long term investments that are secure & lucrative.

I have seen farm land prics go here from 5000 per HA for Dairyable land to $25000/ha now its back to 12000/ha

at some stage there will be a adjustment of the Aucks housing prices its not sustainable.
Have a look at the states to see what it looks like.

This is not sustainable
In 2017, the Demographia think-tank ranked Auckland's housing market the fourth-most unaffordable in the world — behind Hong Kong, Sydney and Vancouver — with median house prices rising from 6.4 times the median income in 2008 to 10 times in 2017

KPMG said it appears that the ban on overseas buyers of houses, which came into force in October, is already impacting the housing market, perhaps more than expected.
"The decrease in the sale of houses for New Zealand excluding Auckland was 8.2%, whereas the Auckland region seems to be feeling the effect of the ban most, with a much larger drop of 24.3%.

[sidecar bob]

I have seen farm land prics go here from 5000 per HA for Dairyable land to $25000/ha now its back to 12000/ha

at some stage there will be a adjustment of the Aucks housing prices its not sustainable.
Have a look at the states to see what it looks like.

So for the long term investor it's gone up $7000 per HA, or 140%, it's not like any kind of bubble burst and it still sounds cheap, not that I study dairy farm prices in your shire.

[husaberg]

So for the long term investor it's gone up $7000 per HA, or 140%, it's not like any kind of bubble burst and it still sounds cheap, not that I study dairy farm prices in your shire.

True But not many of those brought at 5kHa at lot brought at 15-25K /HA and now have land worth 12K/HA.
The dairy bubble did burst.

[sidecar bob]

True But not many of those brought at 5kHa at lot brought at 15-25K /HA and now have land worth 12K/HA.
The dairy bubble did burst.

Well no, to be fair it shrunk a bit, it didn't burst.
The 15 to 25 chums probably didn't do their homework & piled on in there in a great panic before it was 50k a HA, I mean dairy farmers aren't usually the sharpest tools in the shed.
If they hang in there they will eventually break even at worst.
Selling in a downturn is the behaviour of the desperate or easily spooked.

[Swoop]

They asked if the walls were insulated. Er' no, it's 30 years old. They demanded that we were obliged, by law, to do this.

Wrong. It's not required.
Roof insulation is, and under-floor if accessible. Not walls though.

[sidecar bob]

Wrong. It's not required.
Roof insulation is, and under-floor if accessible. Not walls though.

You can use the system where they drill holes variously in the internal or external walls & pour in polystyrene beads.
This system is a little dangerous as they can get into the flush boxes & cause fire if they aren't sealed up prior to installation.