The 2017 Election Thread

[Ocean1]

In my world, people realise that the state of their waterways is more important than profit and wouldn't pollute them in the first place, because people realise that that production results in that pollution. You have no idea of my world, because you've never tried to understand it. That's your prerogative, dude, but you're denying the evidence. See, I see people as capable of grasping a concept like, environmental responsibility, given that it's really rather important for an awful lot of things. No need to regulate anything.

It's not profit that pollutes the environment dude. It's arseholes.

So you go fail to regulate arseholes in your wee world and stop annoying the adults here, eh?

[husaberg]

Then regulate it more effectively.

Yes. I just don't agree with it.

What makes you think I have a problem with charging for regulation?

You need to sort ou who is paying for the enforcement of these regulations or the tighter ones needed otherwise you are just tring to avoid the questions.
Hint just how does Ocean intend to pay for this? who is to be charged? how does one identify who is to be charged? Hint all of this costs money.
Who is going to pay for this and the cleaning plus rehabilitation of the waterways.
You slag off Labours policy but offer no better alternative. or indeede no other workablile alternative (Unless yoou consider Waffle and spin as being workable alternatives)

[Woodman]

In my world, people realise that the state of their waterways is more important than profit and wouldn't pollute them in the first place, because people realise that that production results in that pollution. You have no idea of my world, because you've never tried to understand it. That's your prerogative, dude, but you're denying the evidence. See, I see people as capable of grasping a concept like, environmental responsibility, given that it's really rather important for an awful lot of things. No need to regulate anything.

So in your world you would be happier to just sell the fresh water overseas for the same money as we now sell the milk products for therefore not needing all the cows, paddocks and dairy factories that pollute the rivers.

It takes approximately 1000 litres of water to produce 1 litre of milk.

[mashman]

It's not profit that pollutes the environment dude. It's arseholes.

So you go fail to regulate arseholes in your wee world and stop annoying the adults here, eh?

They do it for profit.

Adults . You're the one doin' the dodgin, Son. I'm offering the blindingly obvious evidence and the logical solution. Why would you pollute when there's no profit in it? Look, when you grow a pair of balls, Son, you might actually be useful.

[T.W.R]

Were those NZ scientists?

Only we get somewhat more than our fair share of the world's fresh water here. About 560,000 million cubic meters a year.

If it didn't eventually escape off the edges of the country it'd be over 2 meters deep inside a year.

There isn't going to be any shortage of water in NZ for a while yet, too much water is far more of a problem than not enough.

It was from a scientific symposium held in Queenstown in the very early nineties

Ha more than our fair share right, yet we've got one of the quickest run-offs of any country in the world
I live pretty much in the ground zero of where the biggest extractions are happening and locally the rivers have gone from things to be reckoned with to piddly trickles of their former selves.
The major river, the Rakaia would flow at 200 cumecs plus over the summer now it'll regularly drop below 100 and the river mouth closes with too much regularity when it gets really dry over the summer months.
Once the only way of crossing the river in it's last 20km to the sea was the main road bridge, nowadays there's multiple points where you can get a 4x4 from one bank to the other without any risk of the water level getting anywhere near bonnet level.
The likes of the Barhill irrigation scheme are totally fucking the whole ecosystem and even though the cockies need the water due to the high intensity practices they have to undertake because of supply & demand the majority flaunt the regulations and irrigation wastage is disgusting.
30yrs ago here water restrictions weren't heard of yet over the last 10yrs it's a regular event for the local communities

[mashman]

So in your world you would be happier to just sell the fresh water overseas for the same money as we now sell the milk products for therefore not needing all the cows, paddocks and dairy factories that pollute the rivers.

It takes approximately 1000 litres of water to produce 1 litre of milk.

Hemp uses less water and doesn't pollute the soil. It also makes a pretty decent building material that would allow more trees to stay in the ground. We could stop producing mobile phones at the rate we do. There are plenty of things we could do.

But to answer your question regarding water from overseas. I'd find a way to prevent it being sold at all. Consider that NZ has need for it in order to help "repair" the waterways. The govt could, in theory (See Bill Mitchell MMT), buy all of the water in the country to use for our future need. there are always ways and means. You just need to figure out what the important outcome is.

[Ocean1]

You need to sort ou who is paying for the enforcement of these regulations or the tighter ones needed otherwise you are just tring to avoid the questions.
Hint just how does Ocean intend to pay for this? who is to be charged? how does one identify who is to be charged? Hint all of this costs money.
Who is going to pay for this and the cleaning plus rehabilitation of the waterways.
You slag off Labours policy but offer no better alternative. or indeede no other workablile alternative (Unless yoou consider Waffle and spin as being workable alternatives)

I don't need to sort out anything, dude. But I suggest that the budget required to effectively regulate a given area should come form those that use it. I'd also suggest that if farmers saw one of their neighbours lose their farm because they ignored those regulations it'd have a tolerably salubrious effect on the industry' ecological performance. In WA, if you're caught with a single undersized fish you lose your boat, car and any equipment involved. Turns out that meaning what you say wrt regulations works fucking well. Who'd have thought?

And I'm not slagging off just Labour, any party that wants to tax water can get fucked.

You still on that "spin" shit? Isn't labeling the housing price increase a "crisis" more "spin" than simply pointing to the the numbers that say that Labour's performance in that regard must also have been a "crisis?.

That, mate, is spin.

[Ocean1]

It was from a scientific symposium held in Queenstown in the very early nineties

Ha more than our fair share right, yet we've got one of the quickest run-offs of any country in the world
I live pretty much in the ground zero of where the biggest extractions are happening and locally the rivers have gone from things to be reckoned with to piddly trickles of their former selves.
The major river, the Rakaia would flow at 200 cumecs plus over the summer now it'll regularly drop below 100 and the river mouth closes with too much regularity when it gets really dry over the summer months.
Once the only way of crossing the river in it's last 20km to the sea was the main road bridge, nowadays there's multiple points where you can get a 4x4 from one bank to the other without any risk of the water level getting anywhere near bonnet level.
The likes of the Barhill irrigation scheme are totally fucking the whole ecosystem and even though the cockies need the water due to the high intensity practices they have to undertake because of supply & demand the majority flaunt the regulations and irrigation wastage is disgusting.
30yrs ago here water restrictions weren't heard of yet over the last 10yrs it's a regular event for the local communities

Aye, I know, about the dryest place in the country. So why let them farm like that? And why let them get away with ignoring the rules?

If they want water fuck them off over to the west coast.

[Ocean1]

They do it for profit.

Adults . You're the one doin' the dodgin, Son. I'm offering the blindingly obvious evidence and the logical solution. Why would you pollute when there's no profit in it? Look, when you grow a pair of balls, Son, you might actually be useful.

Arseholes generally do.

And you're right, you're blind to any logic whatsoever.

Now fuck off.

[mashman]

Arseholes generally do.

And you're right, you're blind to any logic whatsoever.

Now fuck off.

No, just people getting what they think they should earn.

What logic did you put forwards?

No.

[T.W.R]

Aye, I know, about the dryest place in the country. So why let them farm like that? And why let them get away with ignoring the rules?

If they want water fuck them off over to the west coast.

At the height of summer here you can watch the lawns brown off during an afternoon.
The main reason they get away with it around here is the income to the district and who the district mayor is! Angus Bloody Mackay! he's a cockie himself.
Environment Canterbury are too busy feathering their own nests as well and when they do penalise someone it's just a slap on wrist...totally fuckin pathetic!

Bloody MacKay, unfortunately a good mate was his farm manager in the mid 90s (the farm itself funnily enough named "Three Springs" just outside Methven, the springs dwindled to one that would only flow spasmodically ); and through my mate got to see plans and geographical maps of the under ground aquifers the district had and MacKay had ideas brewing way back then many years before he got the mayoralty..... it's an old boys club here and they all piss in each others pockets.
mmm some of the largest operations around here already have taken hold of farms on the coast, even some of the larger Contractors have apart from their core businesses here have multiple farms operating here and on the coast

[husaberg]

I don't need to sort out anything, dude. But I suggest that the budget required to effectively regulate a given area should come form those that use it. I'd also suggest that if farmers saw one of their neighbours lose their farm because they ignored those regulations it'd have a tolerably salubrious effect on the industry. In WA, if you're caught with a single undersized fish you lose your boat, car and any equipment involved. Turns out that meaning what you say wrt regulations works.

And I'm not slagging off just Labour, any party that wants to tax water can get fucked.

You still on that "spin" shit? Isn't labeling the housing price increase a "crisis" more "spin" than simply pointing to the the numbers that say that Labour's performance in that regard must also have been a "crisis?.

That, mate, is spin.

You are slagging off stuff and yet offering no solution. Epic.
I ask again yet how are you going to pay to police this regulatory organisation. Who is going to be be taxed, how are they to be identified in order to be taxed fined or regulated.
Where is the funding to set this up going to come from.
Don't worry i realise you will not actually answer. You still have a bright future in National party politics ocean, All rhetoric, no answers just maximum spin.

[Grumph]

At the height of summer here you can watch the lawns brown off during an afternoon.
The main reason they get away with it around here is the income to the district and who the district mayor is! Angus Bloody Mackay! he's a cockie himself.
Environment Canterbury are too busy feathering their own nests as well and when they do penalise someone it's just a slap on wrist...totally fuckin pathetic!

Bloody MacKay, unfortunately a good mate was his farm manager in the mid 90s (the farm itself funnily enough named "Three Springs" just outside Methven, the springs dwindled to one that would only flow spasmodically ); and through my mate got to see plans and geographical maps of the under ground aquifers the district had and MacKay had ideas brewing way back then many years before he got the mayoralty..... it's an old boys club here and they all piss in each others pockets.
mmm some of the largest operations around here already have taken hold of farms on the coast, even some of the larger Contractors have apart from their core businesses here have multiple farms operating here and on the coast

Yep, all true. If the progression of the last few years continues I'm expecting more and bigger fires here this summer.
The basic reason for the National govt appointing commissioners to run Ecan was that the cockies moaned they couldn't get enough water allocations.
So now we have the situation where water is over allocated to fuck - and we have dry rivers.
Then it follows that stream maintenance isn't done - no water in them - and when we do get rain, we get floods.
What a fuckup.
Locally, I'm told that the River Committee responsible for the stream maintenance has been playing brinkmanship. They get a small subsidy from SDC but have been neglecting work to try and squeeze more out of the Council when they see floods....The old boys club again...

[Woodman]

Hemp uses less water and doesn't pollute the soil. It also makes a pretty decent building material that would allow more trees to stay in the ground. We could stop producing mobile phones at the rate we do. There are plenty of things we could do.

But to answer your question regarding water from overseas. I'd find a way to prevent it being sold at all. Consider that NZ has need for it in order to help "repair" the waterways. The govt could, in theory (See Bill Mitchell MMT), buy all of the water in the country to use for our future need. there are always ways and means. You just need to figure out what the important outcome is.

But the water? off whom?

[Katman]

Ironic, coming from KBs stupidest member.

But the water? off whom?