The 2017 Election Thread

[Ocean1]

GP is Ropata in the Hutt.

Change your doctor.

Seriously.

[Voltaire]

Or at least sent every admittance a proforma invoice showing the actual cost of their treatment.

I have zero hope that that would reduce any of the hype about the supposed lack of funding, but it might at least make the staff more aware of where the costs are.

Instead of picking on the Farmers make the Alcohol suppliers pay for Alcohol related accidents, put an ACC levy on booze, y know nanny state stuff for the useless.

If you have not been busted for DIC, arrested or turned up at A and E you get it refunded.

[jasonu]

. It doesn't work the way you think it does. Health system is fucked.

I found out that one a few years ago when dad got terminally ill then a year later with Mum. Big lesson, even though you spend all your working life paying into a system that funds the 'free' healthcare, FFS don't have a nasty turn after 5pm on a Friday and think the system you paid into will actually look after you!!!!!

[mada]

NZ's health system is not third world by a mile.

The problem it faces (and facing most other Western countries) is that there is infinite demand for a limited resource and a fair number of users have unrealistic expectations of what their paying of taxes (which are some of the lowest in the Western World) should provide for them. Be it pensions, social welfare, EQC, ACC, subsidised medications etc.

The longer people live for - the more complex their health needs become, the more resources they require, the more pressure gets placed on access. There are always going to be trade offs.

In terms of access to GP's making stuff free (eg. free access for kids) actually exacerbates problems, as you often encourage minor presentations that are self-limiting and the worried well attend taking up space for people who actually need to be seen.

The future will be compulsory health insurance. Don't really see anyway around it.

[James Deuce]

Change your doctor.

Seriously.

4 year waiting list in Greytown. One of the Drs there is seriously fucked in the head.
Carterton has a 2.5 year waiting list and I trust them less than I do Greytown fuckhhead. Directly responsible for my Father-in-law's hideously slow death.
With the health issues in my family, moving GPs means losing every bit of history, potentially fatal in one case and potentially debilitating in another.
Hobson's choice.

[James Deuce]

NZ's health system is not third world by a mile.

The problem it faces (and facing most other Western countries) is that there is infinite demand for a limited resource and a fair number of users have unrealistic expectations of what their paying of taxes (which are some of the lowest in the Western World) should provide for them. Be it pensions, social welfare, EQC, ACC, subsidised medications etc.

The longer people live for - the more complex their health needs become, the more resources they require, the more pressure gets placed on access. There are always going to be trade offs.

In terms of access to GP's making stuff free (eg. free access for kids) actually exacerbates problems, as you often encourage minor presentations that are self-limiting and the worried well attend taking up space for people who actually need to be seen.

The future will be compulsory health insurance. Don't really see anyway around it.

If you can't access it, it's rating is less than third world.

Compulsory insurance just means a society willing to kill it's citizens for being "failures". The US spends 17.7% of its GDP on healthcare. We're 10% less than that. Most of the US costs are bound up in the artificial excess of the US medical insurance system. It is NOT an option.

[mada]

If you can't access it, it's rating is less than third world.

Compulsory insurance just means a society willing to kill it's citizens for being "failures". The US spends 17.7% of its GDP on healthcare. We're 10% less than that. Most of the US costs are bound up in the artificial excess of the US medical insurance system. It is NOT an option.

By that definition of access, no country in the world appears to have above third world health care.

Problems with access and longer wait times are the trade offs that we get when the number of people living with chronic conditions is constantly expanding and everything is free.

The US model is one extreme end of the insurance model. Many European models (Netherlands) operate on a social insurance model which they find successful in improving access. But there is greater cost.

The view that our health system is third world or poorly performing compared to overseas is as imaginary as the one that we pay high taxes.

It's pretty simple maths - you can't expect better access when there are more of us around needing stuff but paying less for it.

[mada]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-sta...s-with-noshows

"Patients skipping appointments without cancelling are likely costing MidCentral District Health Board hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.
The problem also slows down access to vital medical care for the no-show patients and others still waiting, and is a bugbear hospital staff are itching to combat. About 7800 appointments were skipped last year by people not required to stay at a DHB-run facility, hospital services operations director Lyn Horgan said."

If there was a co-payment or fine for not turning up how many would have skipped?

[Ocean1]

GP is Ropata in the Hutt.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-sta...s-with-noshows

If there was a co-payment or fine for not turning up how many would have skipped?

Speaking of which, I was at Ropata yesterday. Took me about 15 min to find a park, and then 10 min to walk.

While looking for parks it became obvious that about a dozen old ladies in Toyota Yaris's were doing laps of the block, slowly becoming more and more agitated.

Now, I have an arrangement with my doc: he doesn't make me wait more than 10 min and I don't punch him in the throat. Nonetheless, when I left at least two of those old ladies were still doing laps.

[James Deuce]

By that definition of access, no country in the world appears to have above third world health care.

Problems with access and longer wait times are the trade offs that we get when the number of people living with chronic conditions is constantly expanding and everything is free.

The US model is one extreme end of the insurance model. Many European models (Netherlands) operate on a social insurance model which they find successful in improving access. But there is greater cost.

The view that our health system is third world or poorly performing compared to overseas is as imaginary as the one that we pay high taxes.

It's pretty simple maths - you can't expect better access when there are more of us around needing stuff but paying less for it.

Dodged the issue there. We aren't paying less and we do pay insurance. We all have an NHI number. The National Government embarked on deliberately running down DHB Support, public health and community support initiatives in 2008. The yanked all funding for preschool disability support the day after the election in 2008. In was reinstated after National party members with disabled family members kicked up a proper stink.

You can't access services in NZ because in many cases, such as paediatric neurology and oncology, we simply won't pay consultants what they are worth and that = people dying unnecessarily of treatable conditions. It's started to show up in provincial centres, especially oncology and adults are dying so that becomes a story. Unless you've had to battle with local and centralised funding authorities to get medical services for a close family member especially a child, which they are loathe to spend money on, you honestly do not know how bad the underfunding on NZ's health system is.

[mada]

Dodged the issue there. We aren't paying less and we do pay insurance. We all have an NHI number. The National Government embarked on deliberately running down DHB Support, public health and community support initiatives in 2008. The yanked all funding for preschool disability support the day after the election in 2008. In was reinstated after National party members with disabled family members kicked up a proper stink.

You can't access services in NZ because in many cases, such as paediatric neurology and oncology, we simply won't pay consultants what they are worth and that = people dying unnecessarily of treatable conditions. It's started to show up in provincial centres, especially oncology and adults are dying so that becomes a story. Unless you've had to battle with local and centralised funding authorities to get medical services for a close family member especially a child, which they are loathe to spend money on, you honestly do not know how bad the underfunding on NZ's health system is.

I can see your frustrations and get where you are coming from. But having viewed overseas health care and what it entails versus the NZ system, I still think we are very fortunate.

With any funding in health someone will unfortunately miss out and I do not envy those having to make such calls and feel sympathy for those who miss out. I certainly agree there is room for improvement - but do not think it is realistically possible to meet everyone's expectations of what affordable and accessible quality health care looks like.

Tried to point out that the problem with access stems from more than just underfunding but other factors such as expectations, views on entitlements, societies views on priorities etc.

[mada]

Now, I have an arrangement with my doc: he doesn't make me wait more than 10 min and I don't punch him in the throat. Nonetheless, when I left at least two of those old ladies were still doing laps.

Does he offer a free PR exam each consult?

[Stylo]

I'm thinking or, was thinking about voting for Labour. Been a National supporter for years, thought a change would be a good thing and why not ?

But, there's an elephant in the room .

Kelvin Davies. If he is Jacinda's back up, or number two I'll stay away. At least Simon William ( Bill ) English is a safe pair of hands.

Kelvin Davies is an idiot, he's only number two because he's a token Maori. Give me a break.

[Ocean1]

Does he offer a free PR exam each consult?

No. But he must be about 12, so I feel obliged to point out how the rest of the world finds it necessary to run their businesses.

We're slowly getting there, I haven't punched him in the throat for months.

[sidecar bob]

I'm thinking or, was thinking about voting for Labour. Been a National supporter for years, thought a change would be a good thing and why not ?

But, there's an elephant in the room .

Kelvin Davies. If he is Jacinda's back up, or number two I'll stay away. At least Simon William ( Bill ) English is a safe pair of hands.

Kelvin Davies is an idiot, he's only number two because he's a token Maori. Give me a break.

Well done. Labour have absolutely no talent at all, including the tooth fairy. She has a brief appeal, which as you can see by the polls, has already started to fade.