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Thread: The 2017 Election Thread

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reckless View Post
    No one ever talks about our national debt, Its never a political issue, or a priority in paying it back.
    In my opinion it'd be better paying some off rather than tax cuts or hand outs thats for bloody real!

    Like if you'd blown out all your credit by buying shit wouldn't you make it a priority, not rocket science!!

    This is scary http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/newzealand

    84 billion and climbing is it??

    So is pumping up our economy with new money from immigration.
    So much so the infrastructure is struggling like crazy and debt is still increasing.
    This is not good and no one has the balls to tackle it.
    It's not telling me if that 33% is purely public debt?

    Very quick check shows different numbers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...by_public_debt

    Most countries borrowed far more heavily than NZ after the GFC in order to soften the blow, we're far better off than most....

    Converting even that 33% to personal debt would mean about $15k. Which compares quite well to the US: http://time.com/money/4293910/national-debt-investors/ "To understand our financial fix, put yourself in the position of the government. Say you earn the typical American family income, and you spend and borrow as the government does. So assuming, you would earn $54,000 a year, spend $64,000 a year and charge $10,000 to your already slightly overburdened credit card. I say slightly overburdened–your outstanding balance is about $223,000."

    I'm not even going to convert that to NZ$, you get the picture. The "interesting" thing is that Donald thinks he's going to pay that off by fucking with trade agreements.
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  2. #32
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    For you peeps in Chch. Go have a chat with Mike Vincent of the United Peoples Movement. I went and met him and a few others when they were in Kapiti. As for balls... he organised the group that got the Paua back in the water after the Kaikoura earthquake and told MPI to get fucked when they said leave the Paua on the rocks to die. It's gonna cost you 20 minutes of your time and you can usually find him at the Riccarton markets.

    For everyone else . WTF do you want a nice guy for? seriously, I'd rather have a completely munted dipshit who's achieving things than a smarmy fucknugget who, given the evidence on hand, really don't give a shit if they think it'll cost them votes. There are plenty of good candidates out there, go look for them and put them to the test. Worst case scenario, you'll get someone who gives a shit, and as an added extra bonus you get to appease the groundhog in you as you also get to use your party vote to vote for your favourite colour. It's amusing that we wait for someone to appear instead of trying to find something better for ourselves. DO EEET!

    And for those who don't/won't/can't vote, you can always lookup NotAParty as they advocate not voting... and they'z good cuntz too.
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    It's not telling me if that 33% is purely public debt?
    Well, that's what happens when you discontinue the easy to read numbers.. As you may note, it was 25% 4 years ago, so likely that that 33% figure ain't too far from the mark. If you'd like to wade through the replacement to find what you're after, then start here
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashman View Post
    For you peeps in Chch. Go have a chat with Mike Vincent of the United Peoples Movement. I went and met him and a few others when they were in Kapiti. As for balls... he organised the group that got the Paua back in the water after the Kaikoura earthquake and told MPI to get fucked when they said leave the Paua on the rocks to die. It's gonna cost you 20 minutes of your time and you can usually find him at the Riccarton markets.

    For everyone else . WTF do you want a nice guy for? seriously, I'd rather have a completely munted dipshit who's achieving things than a smarmy fucknugget who, given the evidence on hand, really don't give a shit if they think it'll cost them votes. There are plenty of good candidates out there, go look for them and put them to the test. Worst case scenario, you'll get someone who gives a shit, and as an added extra bonus you get to appease the groundhog in you as you also get to use your party vote to vote for your favourite colour. It's amusing that we wait for someone to appear instead of trying to find something better for ourselves. DO EEET!

    And for those who don't/won't/can't vote, you can always lookup NotAParty as they advocate not voting... and they'z good cuntz too.
    Gareth is looking good, likes motorcycles and hates cats.

    http://www.top.org.nz/
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashman View Post
    Well, that's what happens when you discontinue the easy to read numbers.. As you may note, it was 25% 4 years ago, so likely that that 33% figure ain't too far from the mark. If you'd like to wade through the replacement to find what you're after, then start here
    But I wasn't quoting that. In fact, as I mentioned I'd found several different numbers, the more openly rabid sources using quite different definitions of what constitutes "public" accounts.

    But if you want it from the horse's mouth then instead of wading through the entire family accounts why wouldn't you just: http://www.treasury.govt.nz/economy/...ew/2016/15.htm

    33.2%, same as last year.

    Be nice to pay some of it down, and I'd rather forgo some tax cuts for a year or two in order to do so, but with current indications on revenue and inflation it's not looking all that scary. Certainly compared to the rest of the OECD.
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voltaire View Post
    Gareth is looking good, likes motorcycles and hates cats.

    http://www.top.org.nz/
    Quote Originally Posted by Gareth
    "TOP intends to slash the tax rates on salaries and wages, and ask the owners of assets to pay more. The result is a fairer tax system."
    No, I'm afraid it isn't, it's just thieving from the lowest hanging rich pricks.

    Also:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gareth
    We'll invest in the next generation and get the richest ¼ of elderly to pay for it.
    I'm afraid not Gareth, the elderly have already invested in several generations, leave their pensions alone.
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    Most countries borrowed far more heavily than NZ after the GFC in order to soften the blow, we're far better off than most....

    The "interesting" thing is that Donald thinks he's going to pay that off by fucking with trade agreements.
    The sheer quantity the Obummer was borrowing was staggering. And he still couldn't run the place intelligently!
    TOP QUOTE: “The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    But I wasn't quoting that. In fact, as I mentioned I'd found several different numbers, the more openly rabid sources using quite different definitions of what constitutes "public" accounts.

    But if you want it from the horse's mouth then instead of wading through the entire family accounts why wouldn't you just: http://www.treasury.govt.nz/economy/...ew/2016/15.htm

    33.2%, same as last year.

    Be nice to pay some of it down, and I'd rather forgo some tax cuts for a year or two in order to do so, but with current indications on revenue and inflation it's not looking all that scary. Certainly compared to the rest of the OECD.
    I used RBNZ as they're "up to date". I'd love to know where that 80+ billion went mind.

    Be interesting to see what'd "suffer" if any party chose to play the pay back game. None of them look to be too bothered about such with housing being one of the preferred targets, which is something I actually agree with. Thing is though, whilst the numbers are made to look a little better than they were a few years ago, we're not an island. As such, when something shits itself elsewhere in the world those numbers are gonna change pretty quickly.
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voltaire View Post
    Gareth is looking good, likes motorcycles and hates cats.

    http://www.top.org.nz/
    I love the picture he paints, but his UBI policy is directly at odds with his Environmental policy... that and he'd prefer to screw the "polluting" farmers instead of trying to help them minimise run-off. Why fine them when that fine money will be eroded by oversight to achieve the same end? Why not give them a chance to divest using Hemp for instance? Like I say, he paints a pretty picture but it's full of contradictions and wealth distribution has been tried before and yet here we are. I prefer cats over motorcyclists
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swoop View Post
    The sheer quantity the Obummer was borrowing was staggering. And he still couldn't run the place intelligently!
    Aye, you figure there must have been a strategy to handle it, shirley.

    Mind you I believe Donald's latest strategy of making America great again by stiffing his trading partners has already backfired catastrophically, making for The world: lots, Donald: zero. And in theory he's got the whole team rootin' for him.

    Who's up next?
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashman View Post
    I used RBNZ as they're "up to date". I'd love to know where that 80+ billion went mind.

    Be interesting to see what'd "suffer" if any party chose to play the pay back game. None of them look to be too bothered about such with housing being one of the preferred targets, which is something I actually agree with. Thing is though, whilst the numbers are made to look a little better than they were a few years ago, we're not an island. As such, when something shits itself elsewhere in the world those numbers are gonna change pretty quickly.
    There's a bunch of shit govt is blamed for that I don't actually think they have too much control over. Housing is one of those.

    We've just talked about the last time something shat itself, and concluded that our numbers subsequently looked rather better than most of the rest of the world. That resilience comes mostly from a reasonably open market.
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swoop View Post
    The sheer quantity the Obummer was borrowing was staggering. And he still couldn't run the place intelligently!
    Bush #43 left the country (and the world) in a state of General Fianancial Collapse, Obama spent trillions to jump start the economy, and when he left the employment figures were good enough that Trump is claiming credit for them. Obama spent more billions bailing out the US car manufacturers, so of course some of them are moving manufacturing to Mexico and China. But you won't hear Trump taking credit for that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Reckless View Post
    Like if you'd blown out all your credit by buying shit wouldn't you make it a priority, not rocket science!!
    It's not rocket science and it's not economic theory either. You don't run the economy how you'd run your household budget. That's what caused The Great Depression.
    There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    There's a bunch of shit govt is blamed for that I don't actually think they have too much control over. Housing is one of those.

    We've just talked about the last time something shat itself, and concluded that our numbers subsequently looked rather better than most of the rest of the world. That resilience comes mostly from a reasonably open market.
    I'm not blaming them, merely saying that I would prefer them to get stuck into that area, given that the "open market" has failed to do so and there being a bit of a need for it, instead of paying down debt.

    That resilience has come from the public sector taking on more debt than the corporate sector. If you had have bothered to look at the E3 (as it showed % of debt to GDP, which is what you were talking about in regards to your 33%), then you'd have, potentially, seen the movement of debt away from corporate to government. Ironically, next fuck all to do with the free market. But hey, you see what you see.
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashman View Post
    I'm not blaming them, merely saying that I would prefer them to get stuck into that area, given that the "open market" has failed to do so and there being a bit of a need for it, instead of paying down debt.

    That resilience has come from the public sector taking on more debt than the corporate sector. If you had have bothered to look at the E3 (as it showed % of debt to GDP, which is what you were talking about in regards to your 33%), then you'd have, potentially, seen the movement of debt away from corporate to government. Ironically, next fuck all to do with the free market. But hey, you see what you see.
    The housing market is about as far as you can get from "open", so it's difficult to see where you figure that it's either failed or that the it's lack of govt control is the reason you think it has. In fact removing every parasitic element associated with house building is likely to see the single most dramatic drop in new house prices, isn't it?

    The "public sector" isn't a "market". And how do you figure private debt has been adopted by the govt? The rest of the world sees our market as being more resilient then other countries as a result of a more flexible response to market change due to having fewer artificial controls. You don't have to agree with them though.
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    There's a bunch of shit govt is blamed for that I don't actually think they have too much control over. Housing is one of those.
    I believe that you're wrong about housing. Capital gains tax, immigration control and preventing overseas and absentee ownership are four things that many experts asked for years ago but the govt refused to implement any of them. I think that all of these actions implemented early would have stopped the the over-inflation in its tracks and prevented the continuing crisis. Now though, I don't know what's going to fix it except for a nasty "price adjustment" that will hurt plenty.
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