The 2017 Election Thread

[sidecar bob]

It's already not very profitable. In the case of the one I have left, over a decade or so it's slightly worse than money in the bank.



The correct answer is the owner and the tenant. It's called a free market. Which is very approximately the opposite of what Gareth's suggesting: a local agency that sets the price of a new rental agreement based on what other local rents are.

Like I said, buy the fucking house and you can do what you like with it.

If Gareth expects me to do that with my property, I will render several families homeless & they can go on the 6pm news complaining that their landlord chucked them out & become a problem of the state.

[bogan]

It's already not very profitable. In the case of the one I have left, over a decade or so it's slightly worse than money in the bank.



The correct answer is the owner and the tenant. It's called a free market. Which is very approximately the opposite of what Gareth's suggesting: a local agency that sets the price of a new rental agreement based on what other local rents are.

Like I said, buy the fucking house and you can do what you like with it.

While it might not have been profitable in that case, housing prices are skyrocketing in some parts of the country, meaning it is profitable and low risk to park your money there, and cash in on future buyers higher purchase price. I'm in support of any policy to make it more attractive for people to put their money in more productive endevours, invest in kiwi products before we have none left, etc; the added benefit is it keeps property prices in check and makes it affordable for far more to actually buy the fucking house!

[Ocean1]

While it might not have been profitable in that case, housing prices are skyrocketing in some parts of the country, meaning it is profitable and low risk to park your money there, and cash in on future buyers higher purchase price. I'm in support of any policy to make it more attractive for people to put their money in more productive endevours, invest in kiwi products before we have none left, etc; the added benefit is it keeps property prices in check and makes it affordable for far more to actually buy the fucking house!

Actually, on average prices are going down. But that don't do the shock/horror thing very well, so you don't read all about it etc.

And forget about the feeding frenzy up Orks way a couple of years ago, residential housing rarely produces a decent long term net return.

Houses are too dear, but don't blame "investors" for the shortage that drives that, blame the monopolies that restrict supply.

[Ocean1]

If Gareth expects me to do that with my property, I will render several families homeless & they can go on the 6pm news complaining that their landlord chucked them out & become a problem of the state.

And I'll be in line with my hand out, right behind your tenants.

[bogan]

Actually, on average prices are going down. But that don't do the shock/horror thing very well, so you don't read all about it etc.

And forget about the feeding frenzy up Orks way a couple of years ago, residential housing rarely produces a decent long term net return.

Houses are too dear, but don't blame "investors" for the shortage that drives that, blame the monopolies that restrict supply.

Do you have a source for the declining average prices? Housing seems to be likely to be a key election issue so I'd like to know more than the media's shock/horror take on it.

The monopolies being zoning and consents etc?

[Katman]

Do you have a source for the declining average prices?

I'm not sure that Max Roser's covered that one.

[Ocean1]

Do you have a source for the declining average prices? Housing seems to be likely to be a key election issue so I'd like to know more than the media's shock/horror take on it.

Actually, I'm probably wrong, I misread something the other day: https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/954...t-a-oneway-bet "More recently, house prices fell from their 2007 pre-recession peak in many places. QVNZ tracks the house prices in some 68 local areas, and its figures show that, in 2015, house prices are lower in 62 per cent of the regions in nominal terms than they were in 2007."

So looking at the above.....https://www.qv.co.nz/property-trends...l-house-values shows a 6.4% increase to July. Although "nominal terms" suggests that's not corrected for inflation, etc.

But the price drop over eight years across a majority of the regions is certainly real.

The monopolies being zoning and consents etc?

Anything preventing me from buying a bit of dirt from the cocky up the road, paying a reasonable price to have services attached and the cost of labour and materials for building a house are charges for "products" I don't want to buy. And yes, regional authorities maintain an absolute and completely unreasonable control over zoning as a direct means of restricting supply. The cost of labour probably isn't massively overpriced, although some Orks builder reckoned OSH compliance changes had added about 17% in the last few years. Materials? Go look at off shore prices. Even NZ produced materials, priced overseas.

Arsehole those rorts, encourage the local builders, (as opposed to the accounting firms that just punch the ticket on the way past) and I think you're good for at least -25% on prices.

[Katman]

Actually, I'm probably wrong.

No shit Sherlock.

[Ocean1]

I'm not sure that Max Roser's covered that one.

Maybe you should send him some of the numbers from your favorite sources to model: http://theconspiracyblog.com/conspiracies/health

I'm sure he's just desperately champing at the bit, wondering who can possibly show him the real facts.

[Swoop]

Gareth's scheme is really just formalising the current arrangement where the tenants get to trash the place and then refuse to vacate the premises or pay for the damage.

That is a concerning part of his scheme. He wants to weight the tenants with rights of "entitlement" to remain in a house, yet there isn't any list being made of "TENANTS YOU DON'T RENT A HOUSE TO!" since they have trashed the last xx amount of houses.

Rights and responsibilities exist on each side of the coin.

... blame the monopolies that restrict supply.

In Auckland it is the retards in council who refuse to build upwards.
The city needs to go up to about 5 stories (fuck the NIMBYs who whine about this) to stop the spread of suburbia and also to make a viable public transportation system possible.

[bogan]

Actually, I'm probably wrong, I misread something the other day: https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/954...t-a-oneway-bet "More recently, house prices fell from their 2007 pre-recession peak in many places. QVNZ tracks the house prices in some 68 local areas, and its figures show that, in 2015, house prices are lower in 62 per cent of the regions in nominal terms than they were in 2007."

So looking at the above.....https://www.qv.co.nz/property-trends...l-house-values shows a 6.4% increase to July. Although "nominal" suggests that's not corrected for inflation, etc.

But the price drop over eight years across most of the regions is real.



Anything preventing me from buying a bit of dirt from the cocky up the road, paying a reasonable price to have services attached and the cost of labour and materials for building a house are charges for products I don't want to buy. And yes, regional authorities maintain an absolute and completely unreasonable control over zoning as a direct means of restricting supply. The cost of labour probably isn't massively overpriced, although some Orks builder reckoned OSH compliance changes had added about 17% in the last few years. Materials? Go look at off shore prices. Even NZ produced materials, priced overseas.

Arsehole those rorts, encourage the local builders, (as opposed to the accounting firms that just punch the ticket on the way past) and I think you're good for at least -25% on prices.

Yeh it's certainly not like the whole country is going the way of auckland/queenstown/tauranga, but I don't think putting the history point in '07 is the best for overall trending since the 08 GFC was (hopefully) an anomaly; it is also another reason to attempt to manage the price increases, so we don't see another one.

Agree re the regional authorities, but why isn't the free market sorting out the materials cost? is there a monopoly there I'm not seeing?

[Ocean1]

Yeh it's certainly not like the whole country is going the way of auckland/queenstown/tauranga, but I don't think putting the history point in '07 is the best for overall trending since the 08 GFC was (hopefully) an anomaly; it is also another reason to attempt to manage the price increases, so we don't see another one.

Agree re the regional authorities, but why isn't the free market sorting out the materials cost? is there a monopoly there I'm not seeing?

Because the market is nowhere near free.

This isn't a bad article, but it's still every contributing industry blaming everyone else.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=11702585

I was in Perth a few years ago, on holiday but helping a mate build an extension to his house. Bunnings were selling Gib, made in NZ for AU$11 a sheet. At the time we were paying about NZ$18. Later that year a large building co in Orks imported a few containers of Gib for a complete subdivision. Dunno what they paid, but given the local price it was obviously worth their while to import it. When they were finished the whole job they had a couple of containers left over, so they sold them for what they figured was a reasonable price. Winstone, (Fletchers) sicked the commerce commission on them for dumping cheap product onto the local market. And won.

As far as I'm concerned the commerce commission should have pinged Winstone Wallboards for price fixing and fined them the difference between the landed cost of the imported stuff and what they'd been charging, retrospective for say 5 years.

[Oakie]

Oh dear. It seems the Greens have become a bit brown and curled up around the edges.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/955...-over-coleader

Should send a few percentage points back to Labour and give some momentum to whatever the Jacinda thing does to the numbers. 3% for Jacinda ... 3% from the Greens and hey ho, Labour is back at 30%

[Ocean1]

Oh dear. It seems the Greens have become a bit brown and curled up around the edges.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/955...-over-coleader

Should send a few percentage points back to Labour and give some momentum to whatever the Jacinda thing does to the numbers. 3% for Jacinda ... 3% from the Greens and hey ho, Labour is back at 30%

"He added that he believed the pair's actions had brought the party into disrepute - which was against its rules for MPs - and he'd be acting on that."

[ellipsis]

"He added that he believed the pair's actions had brought the party into disrepute - which was against its rules for MPs - and he'd be acting on that."

...I'm sure the irony is being overlooked or glossed over by rabid party members...keep digging you wanks, the hole can be even deeper...