The 2017 Election Thread

[TheDemonLord]

What's ambiguous about wanting to find out the truth?

That would be a noble and laudible goal...




except no one believes you...

If you were truly the skeptic you claim to be, you'd treat all claims with equal suspicion, but as you yourself demonstrate, that isn't the case.

[Katman]

except no one believes you...

So how about you? Are you interested in finding out the truth or are you happy with any old story as long as it's called the official story?

[husaberg]

The plot thickens from the Official Russian News agency TASS

MOSCOW, April 1. /TASS/. Russia has referred to the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) a list of 13 questions concerning the so-called Skripal case framed-up against Russia, the Russian foreign ministry said on Sunday.....
London claimed that the toxin of Novichok-class had been allegedly developed in Russia. Moscow refuted the accusations that it had participated in the incident and points out that neither the Soviet Union nor Russia have ever done research into that toxic chemical.http://tass.com/politics/997160

He's claiming that Russia hasn't produced any since the demise of the Soviet Union.

It seems now the Russian News Agency now is though.

Mirzayanov was employed by the State Research Institute of Organic Chemistry and Technology. . In 1992, they published an article of the USSR and Russia's development of extremely potent fourth-generation chemical weapons from the 1970s until the early 1990s, in Moskovskiye Novosti weekly,[and for safety purposes in the Baltimore Sun through an associated article written by veteran correspondent Will Englund. The publication appeared just on the eve of Russia's signing of the 1990 Chemical Weapons Convention. Later according to Mirzayanov, the Russian Military Chemical Complex (MCC) was using defense conversion money received from the West for development of the chemical warfare facility.
Mirzayanov was immediately fired. He was then arrested on October 22, 1992, on charges of treason, brought by the Russian military industrial complex authorities — he was not allowed to know the exact charges, as they were also declared a state secret. Held in Lefortovo prison, during the resultant court case, the existence of Novichok agents was openly admitted by Russian authorities. According to expert witness testimonies prepared for the KGB by three scientists, Novichok and other related chemical agents had indeed been produced and therefore the disclosure by Mirzayanov represented high treason.
However, the trial collapsed. Mirzayanov was released because "not one of the formulas or names of poisonous substances in the Moscow News article was new to the Soviet press, nor were locations ... of testing sites revealed." According to Yevgenia Albats, "the real state secret revealed by Fyodorov and Mirzayanov was that generals had lied — and were still lying — to both the international community and their fellow citizens."
Mirzayanov was released, but kept under house arrest and observation. When allowed to do so by Russian authorities, he relocated to the United States where he presently resides, taking a position at Rutgers University in New Jersey.

1994
https://www.newscientist.com/article...ional-protest/
2010
https://science.howstuffworks.com/biochem-war3.htm
2000
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics...novichok-agent
2010
http://www.toxipedia.org/display/toxipedia/Novichok
2014
https://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...?term=Novichok
2013
https://www.opcw.org/fileadmin/OPCW/...rc3wp01_e_.pdf

[TheDemonLord]

So how about you? Are you interested in finding out the truth or are you happy with any old story as long as it's called the official story?

On issues I care about - then sure, I'll look at what is being cited as evidence and look at its legitimacy.

Sometimes it is clear that the official story is at best embellished, but other times the official story is closest to what could be referred to as 'the truth'

However - these days I'm more interested in why you make statements such as above where you infer that the Official story is contrasted opposite the truth.

[Katman]

On issues I care about - then sure, I'll look at what is being cited as evidence and look at its legitimacy.

So do you care about this issue or are you just here due to your fixation on me?

However - these days I'm more interested in why you make statements such as above where you infer that the Official story is contrasted opposite the truth.

Well I suppose that answers the question.

[husaberg]

Well I suppose that answers the question.

Well if there was a question answered it would be safe to assume based of past history the answer never came from you or Crasher.....

So do you care about this issue or are you just here due to your fixation on me?
.

Narcissistic much.......

[Katman]

Narcissistic much.......

I knew you'd like it.

[husaberg]

I knew you'd like it.

I like this better

Russia’s Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov had said categorically there had never been a Novichok program.
“I want to state with all possible certainty, that there was no sort of program around the development of 'PS' [poisonous substances] under the name 'Novichok,' neither in the USSR, no in the Russian Federation,” Ryabkov told the Russian news agency Interfax. Around the same time Rink’s interview was published Tuesday, Ryabkov was again quoted by Interfax denying a Novichok program had ever existed.

Its especially great when you add Russian News agency RIA Novosti ran a story based on an interview with Leonid Rink,

Where he said he had overseen a team at a Soviet government lab in central Russia developing the nerve agents. Rink said he had worked for 27 years at the state Scientific Research Institute of Organic Chemistry and Technology in the town of Shikhani. In the article, RIA Novosti refers to Rink as “the creator of Novichok.”
“Novichok was worked on by a big group of specialists in Shikhani And Moscow,” Rink told RIA Novosti. “And the end results were very good.”

https://ria.ru/world/20180320/1516727641.html
http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ry?id=53882997


It been suggested the the official Formal Russian code name is foliant

Another Russian Scientist said this

Vladimir Uglev, developer of Soviet-era chemical weapons, contradicts Russian denials at existence of novichok nerve agents, Uglev worked in the State Scientific Research Institute of Organic Chemistry and Technology in the city of Shikhany, Saratov region, from 1972 until 1993. He said he handled foliant nerve agents for the last time in 1990. They were not on the list of chemical weapons submitted by Russia as part of the Chemical Weapons Convention signed in 1993. Uglev on Friday said he had been questioned by police immediately after the grisly 1995 murders of banker Ivan Kivelidi and his secretary in an apparent poisoning, and recognised a nerve agent synthesised by his own working group at a closed state laboratory near the Volga river.

[TheDemonLord]

So do you care about this issue or are you just here due to your fixation on me?

I've outright stated that I find your take on the issue more interesting than the issue itself...

Well I suppose that answers the question.

Clap.
Clap.

Well done, you finally figured out my ever-so-subtle subterfuge....

But to more directly answer the question - Is it Russia or not - I dunno, not enough evidence either way and too much posturing from either side to draw a definitive conclusion. There's some historical precedents to consider and they certainly don't favor Russia.

[Woodman]

If you guys didn't watch, listen, or read any news then none of this would matter.

Mind you the bickering is entertaining.

[Katman]

If you guys didn't watch, listen, or read any news then none of this would matter.

Perhaps you should just stick with the likes of Married At First Sight and The Bachelorette.

[Woodman]

Perhaps you should just stick with the likes of Married At First Sight and The Bachelorette.

Probably about as much use.

[sidecar bob]

Probably about as much use.

At least you can just turn the TV off, put the cat out & forget about it.

[Woodman]

At least you can just turn the TV off, put the cat out & forget about it.

The news or the reality TV?

Note. I don't watch reality TV either.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Narcissistic much.......

Bro. Only one or two people on this site, bother to dig back pages and years ago to try and make their point time and time again. You're one of them. You're a fucking Tossbag. End of story.