The 2017 Election Thread

[eldog]

No child growing up in NZ should be deprived from the basic human right be warm and fed and to feel safe. Children can’t control are smart or hard working their parents are.

They shouldn’t be deprived, but some parents can’t cope or be bothered.
there are some who abuse the system these people i don’t believe deserve it.

NZ isn’t really a 1st world country, we like to think we are.

its our community conscience which sets us apart from other countries.

children can control their parents, however these are in the minority. These kids are usually trouble later in life. Often cause parental relationship breakdowns, etc.

the above is just what I have observed in the community around me.

[TheDemonLord]

4.8% Around double the inflation rate. Which seems pretty drastic. See how I took less than one line while you took over 10? Concise is good.

Er... picking the number that's the top of the Google Search... Tsk Tsk



Which is more relevent to the time period in question - that's an average of 3% over 4 years, either way, it's not as Drastic as you try and make it sound. Although I think the rate did slow around 2012/2013 which was due to the global recession.

The number of lifestyle choices that result in home ownership reduces as the price of home ownership rises. Do you understand that?

And? Do you want a House? Yes? Then you have to make the lifestyle choice that enables you to get a House. If you don't like the choices you have to make, then either:

The choices aren't acceptable to you
or
You don't really want a house.

The number of choices, so long as they are an integer greater than or equal to 1, is irrelevant.

Your belief (or lack thereof) in the stated goal is utterly irrelevant.

So you agree it wasn't a strawman - good job. You really do love misattributing logical Fallacies...

The perspective to which I refereed was never one of owning a house, please stop with the strawmans.

Lol. Again, so you know what my memory is like on my life, 5+ years ago - when you don't know me. That's the length you are having to go to, to make your narrative fit. I'd never presume to know your perspective on what your life was like 5 years ago.

And again, it's not a strawman. Hell, if there is any strawmanning going on - it's from someone who is attributing to Me what they feel my thoughts and memories must be... That'd be a Strawman right there...

When you sell an asset, the sale price from the asset is income. Any profits (or lack thereof) that said asset had the potential to make in future are irrelevant.

In the strictest sense - no, it's not Income, you've liquidated an asset - you may have gained the dollar value of the item, but you have lost access to that asset. Your net financial position is unchanged.

Consider a Car - if you own a $10,000 Car - you list it as an Asset - assuming it's your only asset - you have a Net Worth of $10,000. If you sell it, you still have a net worth of $10,000 - only in the form of Cash and not the asset (and you forgo the ability to drive the car).

Whereas with an Income: $10,000 Car + $400 Income = net worth of $10,400.

See the difference? There's also a bit of a hint in the names - one is called 'Income' - the other is called 'Capital Gains' - if you look real closely, you'll see they are different.

Investment speculation is still a factor, so lets close the loophole and treat it as a taxable investment.

Let's not.

Let's first find out exactly how much of a factor it is (compared to say, immigration, the RMA, historical undervaluing etc.) and then let's do some case studies on whether any implementations have achieved the desired result.

Could you also clarify exactly what your desired result is? You started with helping the Poor - but the last 3 posts have entirely been about penalizing and Taxing the Rich.

[TheDemonLord]

Bro. No cunt reads you're ten thousand wanky words responses. Boring as fucking batshit.

Actually, Guano is rather interesting....

Besides - it's either this or doing actual work....

[mashman]

its been 30 years since 1987 and several people think the current boom will extend for 2 years then may slow down similarly to back then. Approx 15 year cycles.

“We know that for centuries, the land value cycle has operated on an 18-year basis,” Harrison said in a phone interview. “The fact is, there is a very clear 18-year pattern, which is always intersected with a mid-term recession.”

[Berries]

You really do love misattributing logical Fallacies...

I had one of those. Complete bastard to start on a cold morning.

[eldog]

“We know that for centuries, the land value cycle has operated on an 18-year basis,” Harrison said in a phone interview. “The fact is, there is a very clear 18-year pattern, which is always intersected with a mid-term recession.”

I don’t remember the land value changing much(maybe it did? Or the rate of increase just slowed), it was the amount of funding and paying work available that reduced dramatically, as it all seemed to be built on a house of cards.
earlier periods had artificial dampers on the economy. Limited funds movement.

land will almost always go up, There is basically only a finite amount available. The rest depends on weather it is financially viable to develop.
shanty towns are built on areas not ready for development.
Unfortunately a minority own it, unless there is a change of policy or govt.
recently people haven’t wanted to carry on with what their parents did (family business/farm etc) they see selling their assets as a way of realising cash to do other things. The recent boom has amplified these events.

i don’t know what happens in China, but doesn’t the govt there own the land and lease it out?
doesnt it also develop areas for industry etc. some areas flashy new homes/apartments right next to 60s and 70s shanty towns-looked to me it was multi decade cycle for development, but land value?. The people there living out of what we would call garages scrapping a living really made me appreciate how lucky NZ is.

as I said before, these are only my own observations, surprises me how they can be accurate.

there are other cycles that the previous gubbermint missed and now is costing NZ $$$
but it suited the policy at the time, to get rid of an old archaic system.

in a few years this will come back to haunt some people but only a few will know. Thing is to get into a position to be on the ground floor when things start to happen and don’t get caught out or have enough to make it or sacrifice whatever to continue till the next wave.

[eldog]

I had one of those. Complete bastard to start on a cold morning.

You need to get some of that “Start Ya Barstard” from Grumph

[eldog]

Actually, Guano is rather interesting....

Besides - it's either this or doing actual work....

There is money and work in Guano don’t you know.

never heard of anyone fucking batshit.........

well, except for Robin “Holy fucking batshit, Batman”

[jasonu]

some are in the wrong location or don’t have the skill set or no jobs to suit.
others can’t be arsed....and make it a lifestyle, move and get free furniture from gubbermint each time, etc.
dont care about society

You mean like up in Northland.

[jasonu]

I believe in hand ups rather than handouts. Regardless a society is judged by how they treat the less fortunate and less able.
No child growing up in NZ should be deprived from the basic human right be warm and fed and to feel safe. Children can’t control are smart or hard working their parents are.

Yes it is tough on the kids.
There should be a way to feed, house, doctor, school ect JUST the kids while providing absolutely no benefit to the bludger parents that breed simply for the free cash they know they will receive from the tax payer.

[Laava]

You mean like up in Northland.

Stop picking on axehole!

[Laava]

There is money and work in Guano don’t you know.

never heard of anyone fucking batshit.........

I know plenty of people who are fucking batshit crazy!

[Ocean1]

I believe in hand ups rather than handouts. Regardless a society is judged by how they treat the less fortunate and less able.
No child growing up in NZ should be deprived from the basic human right be warm and fed and to feel safe. Children can’t control are smart or hard working their parents are.

You'd have no problem with asking beneficiaries to work for their benefits, then. Personally I judge society by how equal the contribution of it's members are, and we've gone so far down the wealth redistribution trail now that well over half of us are beneficiaries. At the direct expense of the hardest working and most productive of the rest.

Agree entirely. And you'll find the solution among queue of hard working Kiwis wanting to adopt the kids who's parents didn't consider their welfare when they had them.

[sidecar bob]

Interest rates can modify the affordibility in contrast to the purchase price. Plus basic market forces, obviously.

Please explain why this source of investment income should not be taxed.

Thank you.
I have been persuaded that it should be taxed & fairly hard. Thank you for your kind words that have resulted in me becoming a more understanding member of society.

[mashman]

I don’t remember the land value changing much

"He said the problem rests in the land-value cycle, which has a domino effect on the construction cycle, the business cycle, and then the overall economy.". It's not just the land value that changes. Although the Land Value on our place went up this last year. Not sure what happened to it. I guess that's a typical econmic response to a growing scarcity.

The Land-Value cycle may not be the catalyst cycle, but something seems to spook enough people every few years as you've noted yourself.

Don't get me started that this is all over money. Coz even though it is (without doubt), some peeps just ain't ready to accept that. Usually those with a dog in the hunt

Yep, it's all a bit weird that we take what we can when the goings good and hunker down when the bad times come. The irony being that when you spook customers into hunkering down for too long, the economy starts to wobble. Then you need a war and presidents that encourage you to go out and buy in order to help fund the war. It'd be a great comedy sketch if it weren't reality.

Anyhoo, we have cycles. Do you think it will really matter whether we can predict them? What would such knowledge be useful for?