The 2017 Election Thread

[husaberg]

Here's an idea: How about they just earn enough to pay their own way like everyone else?

Then how about they make sure they earn enough to afford to have kids before they have them, like the rest of us?

So no room for the poor to be selling of kids in the Ocean plan, Why draw the line at human trafficking its just supply and demand free market economy at its best.

[Ocean1]

So no room for the poor to be selling of kids in the Ocean plan, Why draw the line at human trafficking its just supply and demand free market economy at its best.

Um, because you can only trade what you own? Y'know, your car, your house, your labour.

And what exactly makes you think anyone other than the guy selling them and the guy buying them should get any say in that?

[Katman]

Come back to my theory of lazy, stupid & poor being bedfellows.

So what's your view on paid parental leave?

It is not another example of the government funding someone's lifestyle choice?

[husaberg]

Um, because you can only trade what you own? Y'know, your car, your house, your labour.
And what exactly makes you think anyone other than the guy selling them and the guy buying them should get any say in that?

So if you do actually draw the line a child trafficking why should it be okay to profit from the use of slave labour like you proposed earlier.
You know your compulsory work for the benefit scheme where the private sector can profit out of there use.

[Ocean1]

So if you do actually draw the line a child trafficking why should it be okay to profit from the use of slave labour like you proposed earlier.
You know your compulsory work for the benefit scheme where the private sector can profit out of there use.

What I proposed was that those receiving a benefit should provide labour to that value. Fuck all to do with slavery in fact.

[husaberg]

What I proposed was that those receiving a benefit should provide labour to that value. Fuck all to do with slavery in fact.

You had no issue with the private sector using them for profit and they don't have any choice about working for them, if that's not indentured servitude what is Ocean.

[sidecar bob]

So what's your view on paid parental leave?

It is not another example of the government funding someone's lifestyle choice?

Yep, total cunt of a situation, & I had to hold a job open for some thieving bitch for 12 months at her behest so she could say yeah-nah at the end of it just so she could have the pleasure of fucking me about for the maximum period.
You need to employ a few people so you can get a real grip on how a business really works.

[Katman]

You need to employ a few people so you can get a real grip on how a business really works.

My business works better without them.

[sidecar bob]

My business works better without them.

I'll fucking bet it does.
Unfortunately mine grew to the point where I had to employ piss takers, liars & thieves. Pretty much a standard cross section of society.

[Katman]

I'll fucking bet it does.
Unfortunately mine grew to the point where I had to employ piss takers, liars & thieves. Pretty much a standard cross section of society.

I prefer to be in the position of being able to turn work away that I don't like the look of.

[TheDemonLord]

We were discussing the time period 04 to '14, 3 years doesn't cut it.

Indeed - so why did you quote the 2017-2018 inflation rate again? I picked that graph cause it was in the middle of the time period.

Sure it is, it just won't get individual results.

Perhaps I wasn't clear in my wording - When your 'individual choice' places a fiat of force on everyone else, It's not an individual choice - you are making a choice for the group.

I'll make it real simple - Today, I want to the supermarket and bought a Tomato. That's an individual choice a made, that solely effected me.
If Tomorrow, I demand that you go to the Supermarket and buy me a Tomato, and threaten you with force if you don't comply. It may be an "individual choice" - but it's effecting others.

does it not get classified as an income source and taxed accordingly?

No, cause it's not Income - we've been through this:

So what happens to the money when the factory is sold?

Absolutely nothing. I repeat for clarity sake. Absolutely. Nothing.

Now, if I deposit that money in a bank, and it started earning Interest - I get Taxed on that Income, but if I take it home and stuff it in my Mattress - I'm not earning anything with it, ergo, it is not income, ergo, I don't pay income tax on it.

Any argument in detail made up of those assumptions and can result in whatever you like. Why not skip that shit and just tax the income/profit, since that is how tax works?

We already do - See, it's not an Income, therefore it's not taxed as Income Tax. There's no assumption here - It's clear in the use of different words to describe different things - so stop trying to conflate them, aint gonna wash

1) So what? Risk is not inherently valuable,

Risk is intrinsically linked with Reward - which IS inherently valuable. By transitive properties, Risk has an inherent Value.

nor is it much of a risk to begin with.

You sure about that? Unless you are a recent immigrant or are around 18 years old, then you must surely remember Finance company collapses - South Canterbury Finance, Bridgecorp etc. Pretty much an entire generation had life savings wiped out, to the tune of $3 Billion.

I dare you to find someone who lost everything they'd spent their lives working for, and tell them it wasn't much of a Risk...

2) Fractional reserve banking went away a long time ago, nobody has to deposit money for you to get a mortgage.

You also sure about that? We have a Lender of last resort (The reserve bank), which is a bit of a giveaway that we are using a Fractional Reserve system - Plus: "the monetary system in New Zealand is based on fiat and fractional-reserve banking."

nobody has to deposit money for you to get a mortgage.

Are you Really sure about that? It may not seem that way to you, but it is definitely the case - And I'll give you 2 reasons:

1: We've tried having a financial system where you give out Money, with no relation to either deposits or goods produced - Germany 1920 - it Didn't work - And our economy looks nothing like what happened in the Weimar republic.
2: If you do get to own your own home and you have over 20% equity, from time-to-time, you might re-finance your Mortgage - and then you will notice something very interesting - Banks that 3-4 years ago were desperate for your business (offering low interest rates, Cash in hand or Luxury goods to incentivize borrowing with them) are suddenly colder than a Prostitute who's not been paid. You may also notice the reverse - Banks that previously gave you the cold shoulder are now practically begging you to take out a Mortgage with them.

This is usually because those that are giving the cold shoulder have paid out term deposits or people who invested with them have liquidated their investment and they now need to balance the books, whereas those that are desperate have had an influx of investment and now have Cash to lend out to people, so they can charge interest on those loans, which in turn will pay the dividend on those influx of Investment.

Taxing an income source which is not taxed is simply closing a loophole, calm down chicken little.

Except it's not Income. Not in the Economists Definition. Not in the Legal definition. Not in the IRDs definition.

Only in yours. And the reason for that, is because your argument has more holes than my favourite faded Metallica T shirt without you redefining it.

[eldog]

I'll fucking bet it does.
Unfortunately mine grew to the point where I had to employ piss takers, liars & thieves. Pretty much a standard cross section of society.

Yeah, can’t come to work, got a fever, sore back, headache whatever next day arrive like nothing happened, you often know it’s school holidays or the kids playing up. Wife/hubby take alternate days off.

also difficult to get skilled staff so put up with whoever turns up. I don’t plan much ahead now days as who turns up is a lottery. One day I will win it. Amazing to watch angry staff.

dont worry sidecar bob occasionally payback occurs, usually from their own smart actions when you least expect it.

[Ocean1]

You had no issue with the private sector using them for profit and they don't have any choice about working for them, if that's not indentured servitude what is Ocean.

What I proposed was that those receiving a benefit should provide labour to that value. Fuck all to do with slavery in fact.

[Katman]

I'll make it real simple - Today, I want to the supermarket and bought a Tomato. That's an individual choice a made, that solely effected me.
If Tomorrow, I demand that you go to the Supermarket and buy me a Tomato, and threaten you with force if you don't comply. It may be an "individual choice" - but it's effecting others.

Seriously dude, give up on the analogies.

(And learn the difference between affect and effect).

[Crasherfromwayback]

Indeed - so why did you quote the 2017-2018 inflation rate again? I picked that graph cause it was in the middle of the time period.



Perhaps I wasn't clear in my wording - When your 'individual choice' places a fiat of force on everyone else, It's not an individual choice - you are making a choice for the group.

I'll make it real simple - Today, I want to the supermarket and bought a Tomato. That's an individual choice a made, that solely effected me.
If Tomorrow, I demand that you go to the Supermarket and buy me a Tomato, and threaten you with force if you don't comply. It may be an "individual choice" - but it's effecting others.



No, cause it's not Income - we've been through this:



Absolutely nothing. I repeat for clarity sake. Absolutely. Nothing.

Now, if I deposit that money in a bank, and it started earning Interest - I get Taxed on that Income, but if I take it home and stuff it in my Mattress - I'm not earning anything with it, ergo, it is not income, ergo, I don't pay income tax on it.




We already do - See, it's not an Income, therefore it's not taxed as Income Tax. There's no assumption here - It's clear in the use of different words to describe different things - so stop trying to conflate them, aint gonna wash



Risk is intrinsically linked with Reward - which IS inherently valuable. By transitive properties, Risk has an inherent Value.



You sure about that? Unless you are a recent immigrant or are around 18 years old, then you must surely remember Finance company collapses - South Canterbury Finance, Bridgecorp etc. Pretty much an entire generation had life savings wiped out, to the tune of $3 Billion.

I dare you to find someone who lost everything they'd spent their lives working for, and tell them it wasn't much of a Risk...



You also sure about that? We have a Lender of last resort (The reserve bank), which is a bit of a giveaway that we are using a Fractional Reserve system - Plus: "the monetary system in New Zealand is based on fiat and fractional-reserve banking."



Are you Really sure about that? It may not seem that way to you, but it is definitely the case - And I'll give you 2 reasons:

1: We've tried having a financial system where you give out Money, with no relation to either deposits or goods produced - Germany 1920 - it Didn't work - And our economy looks nothing like what happened in the Weimar republic.
2: If you do get to own your own home and you have over 20% equity, from time-to-time, you might re-finance your Mortgage - and then you will notice something very interesting - Banks that 3-4 years ago were desperate for your business (offering low interest rates, Cash in hand or Luxury goods to incentivize borrowing with them) are suddenly colder than a Prostitute who's not been paid. You may also notice the reverse - Banks that previously gave you the cold shoulder are now practically begging you to take out a Mortgage with them.

This is usually because those that are giving the cold shoulder have paid out term deposits or people who invested with them have liquidated their investment and they now need to balance the books, whereas those that are desperate have had an influx of investment and now have Cash to lend out to people, so they can charge interest on those loans, which in turn will pay the dividend on those influx of Investment.



Except it's not Income. Not in the Economists Definition. Not in the Legal definition. Not in the IRDs definition.

Only in yours. And the reason for that, is because your argument has more holes than my favourite faded Metallica T shirt without you redefining it.

Bro. No cunt reads this amount of fucking drivel!