The 2017 Election Thread

[husaberg]

They paid $1 for the infrastructure assets.

http://www.kiwirail.co.nz/about-us/h...atisation.html



They subsequently lost further hundreds of millions keeping the fucking business afloat.

Thats what i said
Someone else suggested it was far more
the infrastructure assets is the rail network.
$1 was stlll far to much
The problem is if NZ does not have a rail network all that transport has to go on the roads.

[TheDemonLord]

If amazon doesn't sell to NZ anymore its no great loss.

Speak for yourself - there's quite a lot of esoteric bits and pieces that are virtually unavailable through traditional means in NZ except by the likes of Amazon.

[Swoop]

so to suggest the railway union big enough to control the goverment is pretty funny.

As part of the "union" control in the background. Labour's politicians do what they are told to do.

The unions don't pull labour's strings. They don't have to, they built the party, launched it and have controlled it ever since. They retain voting rights on caucus appointments as both affiliates AND as party members. Make no mistake, labour aren't influenced by the unions in NZ, they ARE the unions in NZ.

Worded much better than my attempt.

Speak for yourself - there's quite a lot of esoteric bits and pieces that are virtually unavailable through traditional means in NZ except by the likes of Amazon.

And which NZ retailers and suppliers will refuse to stock or supply here, making their crying about being "undercut by the internet" misleading, at best.

[TheDemonLord]

And which NZ retailers and suppliers will refuse to stock or supply here, making their crying about being "undercut by the internet" misleading, at best.

Well, there is something to be said here - I don't blame the retailers for not stocking or supplying them - if you only expect to sell an item to a 1 in 10,000 customer, it's difficult to justify, especially of the catchment area for your physical store is only 5,000 people.

Whereas the internet allows you to reach a market of Billions - so whilst it may be 1 in 10,000, that's still a market size of 100,000 - which makes it worthwhile to stock and sell.

[husaberg]

Speak for yourself - there's quite a lot of esoteric bits and pieces that are virtually unavailable through traditional means in NZ except by the likes of Amazon.

Well according to ocean if there is demand there will be supply the only difference is you will have to pay the gst on it as that loophole is getting closed.

As part of the "union" control in the background. Labour's politicians do what they are told to do.

You mean Just as the bussiness roundtable and Fed Farmers control National?

Lets be frank since MMP came into effect there is really little difference between Nat and Lab there are both center parties, only one is a little left the other a little to the right. Neither party is able to do much anything radical antmore, as under MMP they have to be more conservative in their views.

[Banditbandit]

The unions don't pull labour's strings. They don't have to, they built the party, launched it and have controlled it ever since. They retain voting rights on caucus appointments as both affiliates AND as party members. Make no mistake, labour aren't influenced by the unions in NZ, they ARE the unions in NZ.

Was once true - but is no longer true ..

I think Labour is down to five affiliated unions ..

http://liberation.typepad.com/libera..._the_labo.html

[TheDemonLord]

Well accocrding to ocean if there is demand there will be supply the only difference is you will have to pay the gst on it as that loophole is getting closed.

Yes - but look at the curve:



If the Demand is low, then the price for supply goes up - Bespoke engineering, Art etc. are examples of this.

So compare the supply and demand curves for your physical store (with a catchment of say ~15,000) to Amazon - (with a catchment of say ~1,000,000,000) - you get economies of scale, which means the price goes down.

Simply put - I primarily use Amazon for items that are difficult to source in NZ and when I am able to source them, they are orders of magnitude more expensive. And I don't wish to forgo that ease and convenience for the sake of some piss-poor legislation that I've yet to see any proof will produce the stated and desired outcomes.

[husaberg]

Yes - but look at the curve:



If the Demand is low, then the price for supply goes up - Bespoke engineering, Art etc. are examples of this.

So compare the supply and demand curves for your physical store (with a catchment of say ~15,000) to Amazon - (with a catchment of say ~1,000,000,000) - you get economies of scale, which means the price goes down.

Simply put - I primarily use Amazon for items that are difficult to source in NZ and when I am able to source them, they are orders of magnitude more expensive. And I don't wish to forgo that ease and convenience for the sake of some piss-poor legislation that I've yet to see any proof will produce the stated and desired outcomes.

Tough titties the loop hole is being closed. To the best of their abilities anyway, some people will stilll seek to cheat the system.
No one is asking you to forgo anything at all, Just to pay the GST on a goods, Like it or not i don't really care, but the GST holiday days are drawing to an end. If amazon find it a hassdle and no longer want sell to NZ, i dont care either.

[TheDemonLord]

Tough titties the loop hole is being closed. To the best of their abilities anyway, some people will stilll seek to cheat the system.
No one is asking you to forgo anything at all, Just to pay the GST on a goods, Like it or not i don't really care, but the GST holiday days are drawing to an end. If amazon find it a hassdle and no longer want sell to NZ, i dont care either.

Yeah, I don't buy that - sorry, there is ZERO evidence that it will achieve the stated outcome and plenty of evidence (Cough Australia Cough) to show that it's a massively dumb fuck idea...

And you are, by implication, asking me to forgo things.

All we are going to do is end up cutting off our nose to spite our face.

[husaberg]

Yeah, I don't buy that - sorry, there is ZERO evidence that it will achieve the stated outcome and plenty of evidence (Cough Australia Cough) to show that it's a massively dumb fuck idea...

And you are, by implication, asking me to forgo things.

All we are going to do is end up cutting off our nose to spite our face.

I dont care i dont care i dont care
Ps I dont care.
To use Aussie as an example to just silly as its only been implimented for a single month.
But the UK has been doing it for 20 years which you conviently ignore. Seeing as you are from the UK you knew this.
https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad
Aussie has a Amazon distribution center opening their, so They dont care either.
If you truely believe its a huge problem for you to pay the legally defined ammount of GST. I say you should not be buying the goods then.

If its such an issue i suggest you move back overseas. Or set up your own political party and win an election or you could face up to the fact its a law and stop moaning about small amount tax for something you claim that you don't buy often anyway.

[Ocean1]

And which NZ retailers and suppliers will refuse to stock or supply here, making their crying about being "undercut by the internet" misleading, at best.

Dude, nobody believes the local suppliers prices at 2-3 times those of off shore orders are caused by GST. That's simply the most convenient direction labour can point to from their claimed moral high ground.

And to be more fair that is probably quite necessary, if there was only 15% difference nobody would bother taking their business off shore in the first place. The fact is until a few years ago all we ever had was the so called "level playing field", and it was lopsided as fuck in favour of anyone with an import licence.

Their level playing field can fuck right off.

[Ocean1]

Well according to ocean if there is demand there will be supply

Really?

Show me.

'Cause it sounds more like something you said to me.

[Ocean1]

Was once true - but is no longer true ..

I think Labour is down to five affiliated unions ..

http://liberation.typepad.com/libera..._the_labo.html

Which simply points out that the unions don't fund their party as much as they once did. Which is entirely understandable, the unions have far fewer members in turn, since their membership is no longer compulsory most of it's decided to decline to pay for whatever it was they were selling. The result of which was far less income and a massive integration of the few remaining unions.

It in no way diminishes the remaining union's control over their party, and the laughably low-level lobbying national is subjected to by local business interests isn't comparable to the unions ownership of labour at all.

[Swoop]

You mean Just as the bussiness roundtable and Fed Farmers control National?

There has been a mindset that "whoever" pulls the national strings, yet labour do not get this form of attention, so bringing the union interest (among other interested groups) into a more public view is relevant.

At least we know that businesses want to make a profit, prosper and employ people.

[husaberg]

There has been a mindset that "whoever" pulls the national strings, yet labour do not get this form of attention, so bringing the union interest (among other interested groups) into a more public view is relevant.

At least we know that businesses want to make a profit, prosper and employ people.

Minset.....

Labour appear to get the exact same scrutiny...
Business want to make a profit the rest is only an ends to the mean. Just ask Ocean LOL
Cabury is an classic example they made a profit having an production operation based in NZ, but they could make a bigger profit moving production ofshore so what happend.............