The 2017 Election Thread

[Ocean1]

Well why don't these losers just save up & buy a house like normal people?

This paying for you own house shtick of yours is a bit fucking rough innit?

They wouldn't have anything to blame National for.

Actually scratch that, they'd think of something....

[Ocean1]

It's not hard to build the argument ...

Nothing is free. In out societies someone needs to be paid for what they produce.

If you participate on society then you are relying on the labor of others to provide things like:

Police
Armed forces
Roads
Water supply
Sewage

Education and Health are debatable - in our society significant portion of the costs are paid by the state.

You are therefore ethically obliged to contribute to the costs of these things that you use.

One mechanism by which your contribution is collected is by taxes.

There are other mechanisms. The cost of collecting through these other mechanisms is higher than the cost of collecting taxes. Therefore, on a cost basis, taxes are the most ethical way to collect your contribution to society.

Now you can ask about taxes as wealth redistribution and argue the ethics of that. There are some ethical systems, such as Ayn Rand's Virtue of Selfishness that would not support taxes as wealth redistribution - the reality is that Rand died in poverty, dependent on the state she railed against all her life. She did not have the intestinal fortitude to live by her ethics ... I have no respect for her or her ethics.

Bu generally, this is largely where the debate about taxes really lies - in the wealth redistribution system.

The ethical approach that supports this is one of equity and fairness, of looking after each other.

Not everyone buys into that ethics ..

Codswallop. There's fuck all fair or equitable about taxing the harder working more than the less productive, a fair and equitable system is one where contributions match benefits.


Also, there's a historically accepted ethical argument that equates taxation to parliamentary representation. So why are we taxing business?

[sidecar bob]

They i would suggest either try to or are losers.
But remember its pretty hard to save up to buy a house when you are a single parent or are not clever or educated enough to get a decent job or when due to a housing shortage house prices go up far faster than wages.
Are the rents you charge lower than the morgage rates based on 30 year mortgage at current valuations.
Or how long would it take you to save a 10% deposit on an Auckland house on the min wage.
Not everyone is lucky to be born smart to decent parents who encourage education and savings or work ethics.

Yeah, see I thought about this one good & early & got a skill set & qualification & kept my cock in my pants until I had my ducks in a row.
Having kids early & not training in anything are choices.
Not thinking stuff through, doing dumb shit & then crying "woe is me" doesn't wash with me.

[husaberg]

Yeah, see I thought about this one good & early & got a skill set & qualification & kept my cock in my pants until I had my ducks in a row.
Having kids early & not training in anything are choices.
Not thinking stuff through, doing dumb shit & then crying "woe is me" doesn't wash with me.

So you were raised in abject poverty by ill-equipped parents who were no hopers in a drug alcoholic crime ridden culture?
Or are you the product of a loving family from a good parent/s with good work ethics who taught you by example.
Remember some people, like donkey's single mom on the DPB were pretty lucky to be helped out with free schooling health care and a state house.
A society is judged by how they treat the less fortunate, the young the old and sick the handicapped and the less equipped in regards to intelligence , Children are a product of this society.
Don't get me wrong I can see where your opinion is coming from but can you also see how some children can't escape their current situation.

[Voltaire]

Yeah, see I thought about this one good & early & got a skill set & qualification & kept my cock in my pants until I had my ducks in a row.
Having kids early & not training in anything are choices.
Not thinking stuff through, doing dumb shit & then crying "woe is me" doesn't wash with me.

Don't forget the bit about there being places outside Auckland.

Perhaps a nice old Villa for $259K



https://www.trademe.co.nz/property/r...5897ab7f91b6db

[jasonu]

Well why don't these losers just save up & buy a house like normal people?

Because the country owes them!!!!!

[sidecar bob]

So you were raised in abject poverty by ill-equipped parents who were no hopers in a drug alcoholic crime ridden culture?
Or are you the product of a loving family from a good parent/s with good work ethics who taught you by example.
Remember some people, like donkey's single mom on the DPB were pretty lucky to be helped out with free schooling health care and a state house.
A society is judged by how they treat the less fortunate, the young the old and sick the handicapped and the less equipped in regards to intelligence , Children are a product of this society.
Don't get me wrong I can see where your opinion is coming from but can you also see how some children can't escape their current situation.

No, unfortunately "parents" would have been a luxury. My mother died a long cruel death from cancer when I was eight.
Surely I should cry foul & be owed something for my hardship.
Fortunately a good friend lent me a Robert Kiyosaki book in my early 20's which forever changed my relationship with money, as a result I don't require any to be given to me by harder working people in exchange for doing nothing in order to survive.
These same books are still freely available to anyone with $20 & desire to alter financial outcomes regardless of upbringing.

[Ocean1]

No, unfortunately "parents" would have been a luxury. My mother died a long cruel death from cancer when I was eight.
Surely I should cry foul & be owed something for my hardship.
Fortunately a good friend lent me a Robert Kiyosaki book in my early 20's which forever changed my relationship with money, as a result I don't require any to be given to me by harder working people in exchange for doing nothing in order to survive.
These same books are still freely available to anyone with $20 & desire to alter financial outcomes regardless of upbringing.

Probably a good source of advice too, back then, given NZ's history with the local share market and real estate prices at the time...

However, if you paid $20 for a book you can get from teh library for $1:50 then I've got some even cheaper advice for you.

[Swoop]

... they sold off plenty...

Tonight's news presented the fact that Liarbour is demolishing 2000 state houses in Porirua.
Strange how the professionally offended are not out there protesting this "heinous action".

[husaberg]

Tonight's news presented the fact that Liarbour is demolishing 2000 state houses in Porirua.
Strange how the professionally offended are not out there protesting this "heinous action".

So what is the story?
Are they renewing state houses to build far more newer ones or just destroying houses?
http://wellington.scoop.co.nz/?p=113676
http://wellington.scoop.co.nz/?p=113685
As i said despite your protestations that national sold off houses to build more, Only the selling off ever occurred. there was a net loss of tens of thousands of houses.
Thats why you never replied to my post.

[sidecar bob]

So what is the story?
Are they renewing state houses to build far more newer ones or just destroying houses?
http://wellington.scoop.co.nz/?p=113676
http://wellington.scoop.co.nz/?p=113685
As i said despite your protestations that national sold off houses to build more, Only the selling off ever occurred. there was a net loss of tens of thousands of houses.
Thats why you never relied to my post.

So basically houses for Maoris as best I can tell.
I'll die of shock if they ever do anything that favours successful white males.

[husaberg]

So basically houses for Maoris as best I can tell.
I'll die of shock if they ever do anything that favours successful white males.

I dont think so it seams like a net gain of 3000 houses with more state houses than previuouly and more 100o? kiwi build for any kiwi and some by a maori trust thst are paying for it themselves.

[Ocean1]

So basically houses for Maoris as best I can tell.
I'll die of shock if they ever do anything that favours successful white males.

Local iwi are managing that lot, but I'm sure they'd build you a house if you asked real nice.

[jasonu]

I'll die of shock if they ever do anything that favours successful white males.

You are totally safe with that one.

[sidecar bob]

Fuckin really?
https://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/19242...ext-month.html
From who's pocket is the 47 million going to come?
They have basically said that an entire industry can't charge the end user for their services.
The only way for landlords to cover the expense is through higher rent.
Rent caps to follow for sure.