The 2017 Election Thread

[oldrider]

It me. Yea!

Reminds me of those radio quiz extras - when the first caller gets it! - oh well, win some lose some!

[husaberg]

What is Simons polling? 7%. 3.5 times as high as Helen Clarks when she took over the leadership of the Labour party. 2%.

That's it.

I'm not interested in engaging with the rest of your thoughts because you simply cannot engage with anybody else in an exchange of ideas. You persuade nobody. You don't impress anybody. You attempt to bludgeon everyone and no one's buying it.

While you might claim to be not interested in engaging with me, that's fine, but at least engage with reality, because in case you missed it Simon is not up against Helen Clark in 1995
Hes up against Jacinda Ardern in 2018 and hes losing big time. Losing in the preferred Pm polls By 32%.
Simon Bridges when he took over as Nationals leader was 1% as preferred PM
Helen Clark when she took over Labour was 2%.
1% is not 3.5 time higher than 2%.
As i clearly pointed out at the same stage of their leadership of their parties Helen rated 5% aginst 10% is not 3.5 times 5% either.
What you are trying to do is compare two different leader from two different time frames to attempt to give the impressions simons not doing so bad, when its clear his ratings are a epic disaster.
The fact his party is rating high while of his own ratings is embarrassingly low proves no one even National supporters believe he is up to the Job.
Nor can you say he is so lacking in support because hes new in the job because jacinda was an instant hit in the ratings.
In fact she actually rated higher as NZ prefered PM than simon currently does even before she was Labours leader. 10.5%

The very fact you are even attempting to put a positive spin on his 7% proves how desperate national supporters are really getting now.

[Ocean1]

I assume this arbitrary boost in pay will be funded by a commensurate compulsory boost in employee productivity....

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/109...umwage-earners

[jasonu]

I assume this arbitrary boost in pay will be funded by a commensurate compulsory boost in employee productivity....

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/109...umwage-earners

closely followed by a hike in price for all your day to day stuff.

[RDJ]

I assume this arbitrary boost in pay will be funded by a commensurate compulsory boost in employee productivity....

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/109...umwage-earners

I'd admire your optimism were you serious

[husaberg]

I assume this arbitrary boost in pay will be funded by a commensurate compulsory boost in employee productivity....

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/109...umwage-earners

Odd you never made that comment when The previous government raised it also for the previous 9 years each and every year.
some might say that would be highly hypocritical of you. But why would your comments ever reflect anything other than a biased opinion that is in no way shape or form based on facts

1 April 2017 $15.75
1 April 2016 $15.25
1 April 2015 $14.75
1 April 2014 $14.25
1 April 2013 $13.75
1 April 2012 $13.50
1 April 2011 $13.00
1 April 2010 $12.75
1 April 2009 $12.50

[Ocean1]

Odd you never made that comment when The previous government raised it also for the previous 9 years each and every year.
some might say that would be highly hypocritical of you. But why would your comments ever reflect anything other than a biased opinion that is in no way shape or form based on facts

1 April 2017 $15.75
1 April 2016 $15.25
1 April 2015 $14.75
1 April 2014 $14.25
1 April 2013 $13.75
1 April 2012 $13.50
1 April 2011 $13.00
1 April 2010 $12.75
1 April 2009 $12.50

Oh I'm pretty sure I've commented about this particular cash grabbing rort multiple times regardless of who organised it, but don't let that fuck up your usual anti-nat narrative.

You're dead right about my biased opinion though, the REAL fact is I'm seriously against thieving socialist pricks and everything they stand for.

Clear enough?

[husaberg]

Oh I'm pretty sure I've commented about this particular cash grabbing rort multiple times regardless of who organised it, but don't let that fuck up your usual anti-nat narrative.

You're dead right about my biased opinion though, the REAL fact is I'm seriously against thieving socialist pricks and everything they stand for.

Clear enough?

I am pretty sure you are talking crap. This is going back 9 years.
Beside why ewould you care, do you pay anyone the minimum wage.

Ohyez, definitely an attitude, rather than an income. Many "capitalists" are in debt up to their eyeballs and have an income below the minimum adult wage, they’re risking their all against their projected success, the epitome of capitalism. They’re poor in every monetary sense, but they’re content to take that risk, and they're motivated to make it work.

I am also familiar with the lassitude going hand in hand with your “poverty of spirit”, it can be a fucking struggle sometimes for most of us to make the effort, to believe in yourself. Some never feel any different, but handouts are not the help they need.

Yeah. Trouble is there seems to be no such thing as minimum employee value.

In fact, those beheficiaries WINZ offer employers with a discount of around $180/week represent a wage of around $10 an hour. Still no takers. There's be no takers if they were free. Welcome to the real world.

I made no guesses whatsoever, you're the one who reckons there aren't any more jobs. All I did was point out that you didn't have a clue and you were pulling shit out of your arse to suit your own agenda. Again.



I have a job. Nothing unfortunate about it, I earned it and I continue to earn what it pays. If there's people unemployed it's because there's an artificial lower limit in how much jobs can pay. Arsehole minimum wage controls and there'd be plenty of jobs for those who's work isn't worth paying much for.



Because it's not the job that defines the value of the person doing the work, it's the person paying for it: the market. Which defines the root of your problem, you see everyone's work effort as being identical in value, which is not only factually but ethically wrong. The fact that so many believe that their effort should be rewarded at so much more than anyone else is prepared to pay for is the real cause of unemployment, not the evel corporations and banks conspiring against them.

So, given that in your fevered imaginings hard working well trained and clever people don't benefit any more than lazy, uneducated and stupid people, and that you not only expect such a system to "work" but insist that it's a perfectly fair and reasonable one then I'd say it's tolerably obvious that your level of idiocy trumps pretty much anything you might like to compare it with.

Nevermind, if you raise the minimum wage high enough then all those wicked employers will have to pay teh hard working employees what they're worth.



Yeah, it really is absurd when you look at how much they have to give back to middle income families in order to compensate them for pretty much exactly what they taxed them for in the first place.

Bollox. You have an uncanny knack of reversing cause and effect. Labour can not "set" the price of their work and manufacturers can't "set" the price of their products. Both would be examples of provider driven markets, and that's a term used synonymous with market failure, a classic positive feedback mechanism.

In reality the only functional price setting mechanism is that driven by the purchaser, demand driven economics. It's self-regulating and stable. Anti-free market adherents have all sorts of reasons why they should have some say in what you pay for shit, and outside of the fact that it always represents theft at one or two removes it destroys that stability.

Labour can negotiate their price with a manufacturer, but they don't have a right to arbitrarily force the employer to accept it, a purchase can only ever be made by the buyer. You're correct in suggesting we don't have a free labour market, but only because of the substantial interference in the market favouring employees. Unemployment is simply a function of the percentage of potential workers incapable of earning an employer the bare minimum required to pay minimum wage.

I don't know when you worked in one, possible when they were pretty much all owned by the big oil co's, who couldn't give a shit whether they made their profit at wholesale or retail. Now they do, and the retail margin is 3%.



Fucking luxury eh? Almost enough to pay a minimum wage teller. But not the rent. Or anything else. In fact once your overheads are paid your numbers represent a huge loss, don't they?

Could it be that your concept of "profit" could do with some work?

Bullshit. There's always been a hard core bunch of doomsayers hell bent on the theory that someone else is responsible for their income, (usually the lack of it). They seem to make more noise, if at all possible when times are good.

The facts are that across the board the standard of living here and in most places has never been better.

Get a grip, chicken little.

[Ocean1]

I am pretty sure you are talking crap. This is going back 9 years.
Beside why ewould you care, do you pay anyone the minimum wage.

So exactly as I said, there's me commenting on that particular socialist rort multiple times, regardless of which outfit it was that said business had to pay more for..... nothing. You continue to make my argument for me, while apparently believing your own spectacularly bent propaganda proves something only you can understand.

Me? Hire someone where the govt decides I have to pay them more than my customers think they're worth? No thanks. Although to be fair, any business imprudent enough to rely on minimum wage employees where the govt doubles their pay it'd be a fairly short term problem.

[husaberg]

So exactly as I said, there's me commenting on that particular socialist rort multiple times, regardless of which outfit it was that said business had to pay more for..... nothing. You continue to make my argument for me, while apparently believing your own spectacularly bent propaganda proves something only you can understand.

Me? Hire someone where the govt decides I have to pay them more than my customers think they're worth? No thanks. Although to be fair, any business imprudent enough to rely on minimum wage employees where the govt doubles their pay it'd be a fairly short term problem.

your point funny, No where have you blamed the national goverment only as you say the opposite As you say you blame socialist no mater who is in power thats what's hypocritical
Ps if you are worried about having to pay the min wage for employees you are not running a successful business at all.
If you are that shit you need to pay min wages you shouldn't be even in business.
Pay peanuts get monkeys. Only thing is monkeys are dearer than the min wage.

[Ocean1]

your point funny, No where have you blamed the national goverment only as you say the opposite As you say you blame socialist no mater who is in power thats what's hypocritical
Ps if you are worried about having to pay the min wage for employees you are not running a successful business at all.
If you are that shit you need to pay min wages you shouldn't be even in business.
Pay peanuts get monkeys. Only thing is monkeys are dearer than the min wage.

I've blamed socialist policy from both parties, exactly as you've just detailed, hypocrisy would be trying to maintain the construct that I support national unconditionally.

I'm not worried about having to pay minimum wage at all, if my customers won't pay an arbitrarily set price for my product then neither will I, the idea that there's such a thing as a successful business that does otherwise is typical socialist lunacy.

[jasonu]

your point funny, No where have you blamed the national goverment only as you say the opposite As you say you blame socialist no mater who is in power thats what's hypocritical
Ps if you are worried about having to pay the min wage for employees you are not running a successful business at all.
If you are that shit you need to pay min wages you shouldn't be even in business.
Pay peanuts get monkeys. Only thing is monkeys are dearer than the min wage.

$20 bucks an hour for an unskilled worker isn’t ‘peanuts’.

[husaberg]

$20 bucks an hour for an unskilled worker isn’t ‘peanuts’.

We dont have a oversupply of Mexicans to clean our Auckland houses.
The Ave Auckland house Rent is nearly $600
$20/ hour before tax is $800 week.
Not that Auckland ever had a Housing crisis just ask Ocean he will say it was made up by the socialists to undermine our rockstar economy.
Maybe you need to be a Rockstar to afford the Rent.

[husaberg]

I've blamed socialist policy from both parties, exactly as you've just detailed, hypocrisy would be trying to maintain the construct that I support national unconditionally.

I'm not worried about having to pay minimum wage at all, if my customers won't pay an arbitrarily set price for my product then neither will I, the idea that there's such a thing as a successful business that does otherwise is typical socialist lunacy.

So exactly who are the Socialist in the National party. You clearly do support National unconditionally as even when they are in power and raise the price you still never mention them or blame them.
Yet as soon as they are kicked out its all Labours fault for doing the same as National has.
You are clearly worried about a minimum wage. Despite your claim as it is you moaning about it.
Your claimed customers clearly do pay a minimum arbitrary price for what ever product unless of course you claim to be so successful you can sell products below their cost of production and your minimum profit you wish to charge.
As all your competition in NZ also must pay the min wage you are not disadvantaged at all.
Maybe you should move to India or Bangladesh or China where such issues as labour laws wont apply to you.

[jasonu]

We dont have a oversupply of Mexicans to clean our Auckland houses.
The Ave Auckland house Rent is nearly $600
$20/ hour before tax is $800 week.
Not that Auckland ever had a Housing crisis just ask Ocean he will say it was made up by the socialists to undermine our rockstar economy.
Maybe you need to be a Rockstar to afford the Rent.

Haha our supply of illegal Mexicans is becoming fewer by the day.
Maybe NZ should import some of them...