Engine Size Questions

[haydes55]

More important question. Can't buckets not use engines from competition motorcycles? Can you then use motocross engines if you can use these factory race bikes?

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[Yow Ling]

At least buckets have rules regarding reboring. Gixer cup bikes have no such restriction so can be bored to any size that there is a genuine suzuki piston to fit. Seems like a bit of an open door there.
Nothing there to stop you regrinding the stock cams or slotting the cam sprockets, machining the cylinder faces, this may as well be buckets

Oh hang on "All parts and functions must remain as per Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) specifications unless stated otherwise." so that means you cant do any of that shit , including reboring, so Drews honing is reboring is out the window. But really who is going to check. MNZ wont they havnt even sorted out this years superbike results

[Yow Ling]

More important question. Can't buckets not use engines from competition motorcycles? Can you then use motocross engines if you can use these factory race bikes?

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No Buckets cant not use competition engines, but the rules allow some competition parts to be used

[jellywrestler]

Can you then use motocross engines if you can use these factory race bikes?

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factory race bikes???? get up to speed before you pull onto the motorway mate.

[jellywrestler]

MNZ wont they havnt even sorted out this years superbike results

incorrect, it's now in the hands of the sports tribunal, again

[haydes55]

factory race bikes???? get up to speed before you pull onto the motorway mate.

Are they being sold, by the factory as a race bike? For a race series?

I remember the debate a while back about not allowing Forza pit bike engines because some advertising mentioned racing and some mx tracks have pit bike racing.

I know these are hardly Moto3 machines. But what makes the gsxr150 cup any less a race series than pit bike races?

What's your definition of a "race bike"?

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[jellywrestler]

for Drew, he seems to be able to read everything on here, but nowhere else, and others interested.

APPENDIX K – GIXXER Cup 150 Regulations (Road)

This class allows a single make competition supported by Suzuki NZ Ltd., for standard
GSXR150 machines with minimum levels of modification required for safety purposes.

This class has restricted rider entry age between 14 and 21 years old as of January 1st for
that competition year.

Riders must not have been placed in the top 5 finishing positions in any national
championship road race (other than the GIXXER 150 class) prior to the start of the current
National Championship.

The appearance from both front, rear and the profile of GIXXER CUP 150 motorcycles must
(except when otherwise stated) conform to the homologated shape (as originally
produced by the manufacturer).

All parts and functions must remain as per Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM)
specifications unless stated otherwise.

1.0 Specification
1.1 The model code for eligibility in the GIXXER cup is GSX150FDZAL7.
A list of VIN numbers and engine number will be supplied to MNZ by Suzuki New
Zealand Limited for qualifying units.

1.2 Control Tyres for GIXXER are:
110/70-17R AL-13HF DUNLOP FRONT
140/60-17R AL-13H DUNLOP REAR

1.3 Valve clearance must be within the OEM specification.

1.4 Only Suzuki genuine parts manufactured for the GSX150FDZAL7 can be used to
make repairs to the motorcycle. Exceptions will be the drive chain, tyres, oils and
other items listed in the following rules.

1.5 Fuel specification as per 10.21a

1.6 Carburettor re-jetting is allowed.

1.7 Steel or aluminium spacers may be used to increase spring pre-load in the front or
rear suspension. These must have no other functionality other than to space the
spring.

1.8 Minimum weight of motorcycle and fully equipped rider combined 200kg. Ballast
weight is to be bolted to the centre stand mounts.

1.9 Number placement and size to be as per 10.2a.
The numbers will be allocated by Suzuki NZ Ltd starting with the number 11.

©Motorcycling New Zealand Incorporated 2017
Manual of Motorcycle Sport - Road
1.10 Full exhaust system replacement with aftermarket or other components is
allowed.

1.11 A fluid catch bottle must be fitted to collect any fluid overflow. Radiator, fuel and
crankcase overflow pipes must discharge into the fluid catch bottle.

2.0 The following parts must be removed:
● Indicators
● Tail light and rear indicator/number plate bracket
● Mirrors and reflectors
● Standard tyres
● Kick start lever only, not internal parts
● Rear pillion pegs and L/H pillion foot peg bracket
● Headlight
● Side Stand
● Centre Stand

3.0 A chain guard or shark fin made of suitable material MUST be fitted in such a way
to prevent trapping between the lower chain run and the final drive sprocket at
the rear wheel. The leading edge of this guard must be a minimum thickness of 3
mm and have a rounded edge to avoid this causing any injury in the event of a
fall. Machines where swingarm shape or positioning prevents fitment are
exempted (for example Yamaha R1).

4.0 All exposed lateral engine cases containing water or oil must be guarded from
contact with the road surface in the event of a crash. The guard may be of a
second cover made from suitable materials such as Carbon/Kevlar or suitable
plastics or with heavy duty end cases or crash bars made from aluminium, steel or
nylon. A frame mounted crash knob or a similar effective protector can be fitted
as an alternative. All of these devices must be designed to be resistant against
sudden shocks, abrasions and crash damage.

5.0 For machines homologated with lower fairing, must be fitted with an integral
lower fairing dam (Belly Pan) or separate catch tray which must be constructed
and fitted to trap and hold engine oil and coolant with a capacity of not less than,
four strokes =3.5 litres or two strokes =2.5 litres with no less than 2x25mm holes (1
front 1 rear) which will be fitted with rubber grommets that may be removed in
wet conditions.

[Drew]

Even if they're a one bike class, they still have to meet the rules in the book.
If they're doing Wanganui have they been fitted with a pull-out killswitch ?
They're a national class, have they got a shark fin fitted ? Has anyone at MNZ ruled as to whether they need one ?

If I was scrutineering at the first formal outing for the class, I'd want to have this shit clarified before I passed the first one.

Yes, getting new bums on seats is a praiseworthy aim. But personally, I don't like the way this has been done. If as has been said, the development class had the largest entries last season but is now being dropped in favour of a one make series, where are the development competitors going ?
I suspect that a lot of those guys won't be back at national level.

They are fitted with a shark fin. They do need a lanyard for the streets.

This is all spelt out in the rules that I haven't read.

Well, the lanyard rule is covered in the section of the rules pertaining to racing on closed public roads.

[Grumph]

Very good...so it's fit a pipe and rejet. Some latitude there for the dyno operators...
Plus run the minimum amount of lightest possible full synthetic oil - and dyno the various available oil filters.
Don't believe me about the filters ? In a car I'm told it can be quite a difference.

These things are going to be hunting for every possible last part of a HP.

Edit - just had a close re-read and can see a possible fruitful - but legal - boost.... Details supplied on receipt of cheque.

[jellywrestler]

Very good...so it's fit a pipe and rejet. .

they come with a nz made pipe, and rejetted, although already people are building their own pipes to try.

[Kickaha]

Bullshit. The rule doesn't state how material gets removed to fit the over bore section.

Once the bore is altered (honing removes material, whether it alters the bore size or not) it is bucket legal.

The rule says "rebore limit, maybe you need to research the difference between reboring and honing becaue you don't seen to understand it, the bike would still be stock bore and stroke which make it ineligible

This would have to be the most fucking retarded rule in the history of racing, so I guess it fits right in with bucket racing.
You can't race against us unless you make your bike faster.
Once again, the bucket people have their heads jammed firmly up their ring pieces.
If somebody leaves their engine intact, they will modify nothing. If some retarded rule forces them to pull it to bits
A. it costs money that would otherwise not need to be spent, completely flying in the face of why bucket racing was invented in the first place, however with $11,000 buckets appearing on trademe, clearly that reason has long been forgotten.
B. If people are forced to pull their engines open, they won't just rebore them, they will raise the compression, port them, dial in the cams etc etc & make them faster. How does that help fellow competitors? Including the ones that are wanting it upheld.
Wouldn't it be better to just shut up & leave well enough alone? I appreciate the mentality we are working with, so probably not.

Are you trying to outcunt Drew? you need to step it up a bit because you're lagging way behind him

No one is saying they can't race against us unless they make their bike faster, they're saying make it legal for the class if you want to race us

$11,000 buckets on TM? how many of those are actually appearing?

All it needs is for someone too put a remit in increasing the legal cc limit to what is already allowed for the overbore with no extra provision for overbores and they're eligible

I said I'd provide a receipt for a hone. What changes hands and whether I need to actually sight the bike is between the owner and myself.

So you're happy for people to cheat and run illegal bikes then?

[AllanB]

Plus run the minimum amount of lightest possible full synthetic oil - and dyno the various available oil filters.
Don't believe me about the filters ? In a car I'm told it can be quite a difference.

These things are going to be hunting for every possible last part of a HP.

Interesting. Must be about oil flow restriction?

So ...... remove and bypass the oil filter, no restriction. It's a race bike - change the oil each race weekend.

[Drew]

The rule says "rebore limit, maybe you need to research the difference between reboring and honing becaue you don't seen to understand it, the bike would still be stock bore and stroke which make it ineligible


So you're happy for people to cheat and run illegal bikes then?

It doesn't say that the bore and stroke can't remain standard. It says that if you are altering the bore then the max CC limit is higher.

If that's what it took for these kids to be allowed to ride at a bucket meeting, then yeah. Happy to help.

[Drew]

Interesting. Must be about oil flow restriction?

So ...... remove and bypass the oil filter, no restriction. It's a race bike - change the oil each race weekend.

Yeah. Just how hard it is to turn the pump.

[Yow Ling]

Yeah. Just how hard it is to turn the pump.

That will depend on the oilpump flow rate l/min
the oil pressure
oil viscosity
and the pump efficiency

its just maths