Election Bribes 2017

[Ocean1]

Leaders debate tonight is an instant ' no watch ' for me . If Mike Hoskings is the mediator , it's hardly going to be balanced.

He lost his credibility a long time ago. plus , he's an egotistical wanker, and I'm a long time National supporter.

And yet a recent analysis of actual historic performance data had him balanced, more or less dead even.

Which is hardly surprising, as that's the basis of TVNZ's remit for the role.

Amazing how one's perception is bent in by intense dislike, innit?

I mean how else can you explain Labour's recent fortunes, on the basis of absolutely zero change in policy whatsoever?

[Ocean1]

Well, yes - there are those who are intelligent and creative, but have fuck all work ethic - those people need to work harder, but there is also a class who work hard, but for lack of a better word are Stupid. They are barely capable of performing the most menial of tasks.

You know that 40 year old worker at a fast food restaurant who can barely get your order right - they can work as hard as they want, they are still going to be on the bottom rungs of the economic and societal ladder because they are stupid. And this isn't faux-superiority, the 2 biggest predictors (combined) for how much someone will earn is hard work AND intelligence - if you work hard but are stupid, you are going to hit an intellectual ceiling - where the higher paying tasks are simply too complex for you.

For these people - there should be a reasonable standard of living - what constitutes reasonable - well, that's up for debate.

Mmmmm. So why are we importing fruit pickers and farm workers?

And what's the function of the minimum wage? It sure as fuck bears no relationship to any requirement for any minimum production.

Equality of outcome is Cancer, but also one has to be conscious of the gini coefficient for Income - if it becomes too steep, that's where you see a big rise in Crime - if those at the bottom have no alternatives to succeed other than become violent thugs.

This is what I talk about when I mean a societal cost. Yes, nature is unequal, but if we let society get too disparate, then we end up creating a crime wave.

Well in spite of the deluge of whining from the left about rampant inequality NZ's gini numbers have hardly moved for years. So if there's a problem it's the advertising campaign saying otherwise that's most likely to be responsible for any increases in crimes of envy. Not, I hasten to add that threats of violence have ever been any reason whatsoever to pander to such shit.

Similarly, the perception that living standards are plummeting can fairly easily be refuted, but massive improvements in living standards aren't all that useful in shaking down all dem rich pricks.

[Stylo]

And yet a recent annalists of actual historic performance data had him balanced, more or less dead even.

Which is hardly surprising, as that's the basis of TVNZ's remit for the role.

Amazing how one's perception is bent in by intense dislike, innit?

I mean how else can you explain Labour's recent fortunes, on the basis of absolutely zero change in policy whatsoever?

I haven't read that analysis Ocean1 , please enlighten me.

And I'm not leaning any way..but, must admit due to complete apathy on the National party side, I'm leaning slightly more to the left than I have ever done.

'Intense' dislike ? Where did that come from, I never said that.

[Ocean1]

I haven't read that analysis Ocean1 , please enlighten me.

And I'm not leaning any way..but, must admit due to complete apathy on the National party side, I'm leaning slightly more to the left than I have ever done.

'Intense' dislike ? Where did that come from, I never said that.

Oh it wasn't anything deeply numerically impressive, just a look at how many embarrassing questions, interruptions imposed on either side, etc etc. It's interesting, given the recent petition from some insignificant percentage of the population insisting he be sacked, based on the completely unsupported claim that he dressed right.

Oh we're all internally centered, no doubt, but from an outsider's perspective we all lean one way or another.

Came from an ill advised browse through comments on a Harold article, which mostly matched your comments, and similarly offered little by way of evidence for all the foamy mouth stuff. You may not dislike him, but the fact is that's the single most powerful factor in how we perceive others. Actual integrity and performance come way, way down the list.

[Stylo]

Oh it wasn't anything deeply numerically impressive, just a look at how many embarrassing questions, interruptions imposed on either side, etc etc. It's interesting, given the recent petition from some insignificant percentage of the population insisting he be sacked, based on the completely unsupported claim that he dressed right.

Oh we're all internally centered, no doubt, but from an outsider's perspective we all lean one way or another.

Came from an ill advised browse through comments on a Harold article, which mostly matched your comments, and similarly offered little by way of evidence for all the foamy mouth stuff. You may not dislike him, but the fact is that's the single most powerful factor in how we perceive others. Actual integrity and performance come way, way down the list.

Sounds you're a bit be-fuddled tonight Ocean 1 .... Not sure what a Harold article is but, best you have an early night aye.

Oh dear.

[Swoop]

Sounds you're a bit be-fuddled tonight Ocean 1 .... Not sure what a Harold article is...

The Harold.
What used to be a bastion of NZ reporting, based in a newspaper format.

It nowadays is unable to decide if it really wants to be a woman's magazine, gossip column, fake news, or mouthpiece for articles written overseas and re-published here. Journalistic ability and editorial standards = zero.

[FJRider]

... and i'll build a wall around auckland, then flood it.


vote akzle.

Give it a few years ... and it will sink into the mire on it's own accord.

But when the motorways become clogged up ... there'll be plenty of cycle lanes available to get around ...

[Woodman]

Watched a bit of the leaders debate. Fuck jacinda adearn has huge ears. Not huge compared to her teeth, but still well out of proportion. Vote National.

[James Deuce]

And yet the spend on at least Health and Welfare is higher than it's ever been.

And I know you don't see that, and I know ACC and WINZ fail to deliver what they say they do, but at least part of the reason for that is the fact that politicians continue to promise more services, for more people than the budget will deliver. A situation not made any easier by rapid improvements in expensive health technology. Vote buying will ALWAYS fail to deliver effective results, it's not even in the picture.

So you go from a rational "best bang for your buck" spending policy to one where you've over-promised so much that nit pickin' bureaucratic obstruction and blowing out the waiting list are the only options.

Hospitals are failing to deliver as well. The Bureaucracy is worse than it's ever been. It's the biggest obstruction to gaining access to the only available channels of targeted help. Throwing more money at it is not the way to fix it, because the only people money managers trust are more money managers. All services need more frontline people. There is no longer an excuse for personal information being held by Government being segregated departmentally. Privacy "concerns" are the biggest hindrance to service delivery and the greatest contributor to systemic inefficiency. When Facebook knows more about the populace of a country then Government bureacracy needs to have a long hard look at itself. Doctors and teachers need to stop writing stuff on paper too. That's another problem that creates more problems than it solves.

[James Deuce]

Mmmmm. So why are we importing fruit pickers and farm workers?

Because minimum wage seasonal part time work over a few months of the year no longer provides enough income to raise a family. Because being paid for a 3 hour milk in the morning and 3 hour milk in the afternoon and working a 16 hour day was becoming a bit obviously exploitative.

[Ocean1]

Hospitals are failing to deliver as well. The Bureaucracy is worse than it's ever been. It's the biggest obstruction to gaining access to the only available channels of targeted help. Throwing more money at it is not the way to fix it, because the only people money managers trust are more money managers. All services need more frontline people. There is no longer an excuse for personal information being held by Government being segregated departmentally. Privacy "concerns" are the biggest hindrance to service delivery and the greatest contributor to systemic inefficiency. When Facebook knows more about the populace of a country then Government bureacracy needs to have a long hard look at itself. Doctors and teachers need to stop writing stuff on paper too. That's another problem that creates more problems than it solves.

Aye, pretty much. Unfortunately any subsidy at all distorts both cost and usage. Taking your snotty kid to the ED might save you a few dollars, but the DHB gets no GP subsidy, so it makes a complete joke of their ED funding model. And costs the taxpayer an order of magnitude more than any GP subsidy. Not to mention trashing waiting time kpis.

I don't necessarily agree that more money wouldn't provide more discrete interventions, but you certainly need to channel that money all the way to it's intended purpose, or it leaks amazingly quickly. Which is why I'm also a little wary of the "less admin, more front line" thing, you can't rely on clinical staff to manage money, they'll completely and utterly fuck any given budget, every time, they're simply not wired that way. Needless to say there will always be budget constraints, anyone proposing significant funding increases is either an idiot or a... politician.

Re the information sharing, yes it's well overdue, there are moves afoot, as you probably know, but there's also discrepancies in the platform proposed for each service. Really does need central govt to wave a big stick, lock the various Boards in a room and let them out only when they've got a coherent plan.

[Ocean1]

Because minimum wage seasonal part time work over a few months of the year no longer provides enough income to raise a family. Because being paid for a 3 hour milk in the morning and 3 hour milk in the afternoon and working a 16 hour day was becoming a bit obviously exploitative.

Re minimum wage, see: minimum production. If the end user doesn't think the finished goods are worth the extra then there that's another job down the tubes. Want to loose some more? Just increase minimum wage again.

And I'm not sure that "because arseholes" is a viable reason to choose imported labour over local labour, is it?

[AllanB]

Gareth Morgan can be a bit of a tosser but I like the line his TOP crew are taking. .

I work with a few 30 year old or so lawyers - they like the way he talks.

I reckon John Key read it well. NZ, regardless of how well we are or are not doing just won't tolerate anything beyond three terms. Not that long ago the catch phrase about Helen Clark and her lot was '9 years and what have they done..'

[Voltaire]

My wifes observation was " OMG what has she done to her hair", she had no comment on Bills hair.

I think Mike looked spiffing in a suit and tie, much better than the jeans look that he tries to keep up with his much younger wife and Toni Street.

No mention of the costs of large Flat Whites now hovering near $5.

Its not builders we need its Baristas.

[TheDemonLord]

Leaders debate tonight is an instant ' no watch ' for me . If Mike Hoskings is the mediator , it's hardly going to be balanced.

He lost his credibility a long time ago. plus , he's an egotistical wanker, and I'm a long time National supporter.

I'm not a huge Hoskings fan (sometimes I do have the urge to slap his Smug Mug) but I thought he gave both sides an equal Grilling, allowed some crucial interjections from both sides and allowed a little bit of back and forth were needed.

It was a very balanced moderation.

I think the problem that certain sectors of society is winging about - is that the Moderator isn't a raving Marxist and therefore shouldn't be allowed to speak...