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Thread: should we be allowed semi-autos?

  1. #1
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    should we be allowed semi-autos?

    Seems to be a warmish topic on the radio at the moment. It is a pity that there is so much mis-information presented on both sides of the discussion. Radio NZ had some professor from Dunedin saying how no-one needed automatic rifles in NZ. Yes, he continually used the word automatic, some expert. The weapon of choice for the terrorist and the casual mass murderer at the moment seems to be the motor vehicle and the bomb, both of these can kill as many people as with a semi-automatic rifle or pistol.

    Although Trump is a certified moron, his comment that the mass killings in the US are a mental health problem not a firearm one does resonate a little with me. In some ways our firearm laws are a little more relaxed than in the US but we don't have the same sort of problem, despite being the second highest firearm owners in the world. In NZ, for example, a criminal conviction does not mean you can't own a firearm licence, as long as the conviction isn't violence related and you don't have a restraining order against you. In the US a federal offence means no firearm. There are loop-holes in this however, the gun show for example.

    Anyway, it seems to me that the US has a real problem with their people that we in general don't, that is a mental health problem and their gun culture. They use phrases like "pulling the trigger" for the simple act of buying something, a sure sign that something is wrong with the whole mentality of the population. Of course they're not all like that, probably not that many are archetypal republican gun nuts, but they have a significant influence on the culture.

    As for the pro side putting Mr Tipple on as spokesman doesn't do the pro side any favours.

    Cheers

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    To answer the opening question:

    Yes, we should be allowed semi-autos.

    IMO the NZ system has some of the most balanced and fair gun laws - there's a few tweaks I'd make here and there, but overall we have it pretty good.

    The US however is whole different kettle of fish.

    There are Mental Health issues, but there are also issues (IMO) with the 2nd Amendment (in so far as it's out of date, and it grants something as a right which IMO is a privledge), I think there is also an underlying mindset that is relevant to the US issue.
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    "allowed" by whom? (and who is "we"? i believe civillians should be equally, or better, as armed as the government/enforcement)

    those inclined to adhere to the legislature go through the hoops to obtain full autos.

    those less inclined to legislature, still obtain full autos.

    self loaders have applications in pest destruction, target shooting for those with shoulder injuries, lazy cunts, etc.

    and i have to switch off whenever talkbackers phone up about "gun stuff" because the level of general ignorance gives me the shits.
    even amongst license holders and self-proclaimed enthusiasts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akzle View Post
    "allowed" by whom? (and who is "we"? i believe civillians should be equally, or better, as armed as the government/enforcement)
    The problem there is that in todays battle space - the cost of entry is simply too high for a civillian, or even a well regulated militia to achieve parity with the Governement. Not to mention that the Government has some other advantages of scale and tactics (such as co-ordinated assaults) that aren't open to the Civillians.

    Even if I do agree that the spirit of the 2nd Amendment is a fundamental problem that it is right to be cognizant of, even if I think that with advances in Tech, the 2nd Amendment has aged poorly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akzle View Post
    those inclined to adhere to the legislature go through the hoops to obtain full autos.

    those less inclined to legislature, still obtain full autos.
    I'd love to own a Full-Auto, but if someone was to ask why I should need one - the best answer I have is "Fun at the range" - which isn't enough of a Justification to own one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akzle View Post
    self loaders have applications in pest destruction, target shooting for those with shoulder injuries, lazy cunts, etc.
    Plus they give you +5 Tactikool points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akzle View Post
    and i have to switch off whenever talkbackers phone up about "gun stuff" because the level of general ignorance gives me the shits.
    even amongst license holders and self-proclaimed enthusiasts.
    So no different from posting on KB then....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmik de Bris View Post
    In some ways our firearm laws are a little more relaxed than in the US...
    Not true.
    Ours require more strenuous vetting prior to and at re-licencing time. Also concealed carry isn't legally permitted here... among other things.
    Our firearm laws are possibly one of the finest, workable pieces of legislation in the world.


    I love the TV "experts" spouting off about "easily fixing the American gun laws". Utter bullshit indeed. The dopey bint on TV3's The Project is a classic example.
    The ingrained psyche goes back to the 1800's where everybody had a firearm for hunting, protection from wild animals, two-legged vermin, etc, etc. That psyche has been ingrained ever since and the "horse has already bolted" as the saying goes.
    To change America's gun culture is not a simple matter whatsoever.


    Yes, we should be able to own self loading firearms.


    btw: No such thing as semi-auto. It is either fully automatic or it fires a single round at a time. "Self-loading" is the correct term.
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    Given that NZ doesn't have a huge problem with mass shootings, or shootings in general, it's hard to point at any major issues with our current gun laws.

    It's not particularly difficult to obtain a firearms licence, in fact possibly easier (or less risky) than trying to obtain illegal weapons, so if someone really wanted to collect some guns and go crazy bonkers and shoot up a church they probably could with completely legal firearms. There's not a lot of justification for automatics in a sporting context, however semi's have their place, for example when you're in a paddock crawling with bunnies and trying to take out as many as you can before they all leg it.

    The lack of gun deaths despite our high rate of ownership could be related to the storage requirements, and the inability for any idiot who thinks he's a gangster to walk around with a handgun on their person.

    One idea that has been raised in the past which seems not unreasonable is registration of firearms to owners, it doesn't seem like a terrible plan to keep track of what's out there in the world, whether it would prevent anything bad from happening is a different matter altogether.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swoop View Post
    Not true.
    Ours require more strenuous vetting prior to and at re-licencing time. Also concealed carry isn't legally permitted here... among other things.
    Our firearm laws are possibly one of the finest, workable pieces of legislation in the world.


    I love the TV "experts" spouting off about "easily fixing the American gun laws". Utter bullshit indeed. The dopey bint on TV3's The Project is a classic example.
    The ingrained psyche goes back to the 1800's where everybody had a firearm for hunting, protection from wild animals, two-legged vermin, etc, etc. That psyche has been ingrained ever since and the "horse has already bolted" as the saying goes.
    To change America's gun culture is not a simple matter whatsoever.


    Yes, we should be able to own self loading firearms.


    btw: No such thing as semi-auto. It is either fully automatic or it fires a single round at a time. "Self-loading" is the correct term.
    Perhaps a little Utopian but good balanced government (less is more) and honest money creation would help heaps!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmik de Bris View Post
    Seems to be a warmish topic on the radio at the moment. It is a pity that there is so much mis-information presented on both sides of the discussion.
    More lack of information ... bordering on ignorance ... with a dash of stupidity thrown in for good measure ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmik de Bris View Post
    Yes, he continually used the word automatic, some expert. The weapon of choice for the terrorist and the casual mass murderer at the moment seems to be the motor vehicle and the bomb, both of these can kill as many people as with a semi-automatic rifle or pistol.
    As has already been said ... The two types are automatic or self loading single or multi-round firing. (As opposed to machine guns ... which have no single shot ability.) And the single shot (With rifles usually bolt action). But the weapon needs to be re-loaded manually after each shot that is fired.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmik de Bris View Post
    Although Trump is a certified moron, his comment that the mass killings in the US are a mental health problem not a firearm one does resonate a little with me.
    Name ONE offender that caused single or multiple deaths with the use of firearms (of any type) ... that was a LICENSED gun owner. Remember Aramoana ... ??? Tell me that (in your opinion) Grey was totally sane ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmik de Bris View Post
    In some ways our firearm laws are a little more relaxed than in the US but we don't have the same sort of problem, In NZ, for example, a criminal conviction does not mean you can't own a firearm licence, as long as the conviction isn't violence related and you don't have a restraining order against you.
    The USA has "The right to bear arms" which is defined as " the people's right to possess weapons (arms) for their own defense"
    Shooting an unarmed concert crowd from 30 floors up in the dark ... is NOT in self defense. He wasn't even in the room to sleep. He came to kill with 26 (I think) weapons.

    In New Zealand ... Trophy hunting, sports shooting competitions, food gathering, pest eradication, and road sign perforation ... seem to be Kiwi's main use of firearms. Being used for instant divorce not so much ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmik de Bris View Post
    In the US a federal offence means no firearm. There are loop-holes in this however, the gun show for example.
    It depends ENTIRELY which STATE you are in. Rules in some states may vary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmik de Bris View Post
    They use phrases like "pulling the trigger" for the simple act of buying something, a sure sign that something is wrong with the whole mentality of the population.
    What does the phrase "It looks sick bro) mean to you ... ??? Even to some members on this site could give a different meaning/understanding to your's ... depending how old you are really. The "mentality" of the one that came up with the latter day meaning might be a sure sign of something not quite right ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmik de Bris View Post
    Of course they're not all like that, probably not that many are archetypal republican gun nuts, but they have a significant influence on the culture.
    In NZ ... there are many archetypal motorcycle nuts ... is that good or bad .. ?? ... ??? Are THEY good or bad ... ?? And ... they DO have a significant influence on the culture. Again ... is that good or bad ... ???
    When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...

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    I'd just like to see a bit more responsible ownership and use. Found another bullet hole in the house yesterday, now 5 there.
    None seem to be bigger than .22 so I'm picking it's bunny shooters in the area around the village.
    How hard is it to site yourself to shoot away from the built up area ?
    Plenty of kids in the village now - there's always a risk of hitting one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmik de Bris View Post
    As for the pro side putting Mr Tipple on as spokesman doesn't do the pro side any favours.
    Seriously? They must be total muppets

    Quote Originally Posted by neels View Post
    so if someone really wanted to collect some guns and go crazy bonkers and shoot up a church they probably could with completely legal firearms.
    Depending on what site you want to read and believe 60-80% of US mass shootings are carried out by legally owned firearms
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmik de Bris View Post
    Radio NZ had some professor from Dunedin saying how no-one needed automatic rifles in NZ. Yes, he continually used the word automatic, some expert.
    Right. So what is the correct way to refer to an automatic rifle without using the word automatic?

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    Nothing wrong with self-loading rifles. It's just a convenience thing. If there was an incident which would have been prevented or mitigated by their ban then it might be worth looking at again, the probability of that seems pretty small since our gun culture isn't fucked.

    But if that did happen, maybe only self-loaders for .22s, keep the pests at bay. Hunters who really need self loaders should spend more time at the range. Bolt action's are pretty quick anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swoop View Post


    btw: No such thing as semi-auto. It is either fully automatic or it fires a single round at a time. "Self-loading" is the correct term.
    Right or wrong if you start referring to self loading firearms no one will know what you are on about. Maybe another horse that has bolted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post



    Name ONE offender that caused single or multiple deaths with the use of firearms (of any type) ... that was a LICENSED gun owner.
    Stephen Paddock

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post

    I'd love to own a Full-Auto, but if someone was to ask why I should need one - the best answer I have is "Fun at the range" - which isn't enough of a Justification to own one.
    Speaking of "fun at the range" - One of my friends was on holiday in Vietnam earlier this year. She posted a youtube clip of herself firing an entire mag of AK47 and laughing maniacally. That range also had an M60 you could have a burl on.

    yes, I'm going next year, why do you ask?

    Years ago I had a crack at firing a few handguns (HMS shooting if I remember what they called it) and it was great fun. But the hassle of getting the licence(s) meant I CBF - I still dont have even an A cat licence. I also dont need another fucking expensive hobby.
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