BUACA: Bikers United Against Child Abuse - Australia

[bluninja]

WTF?????????
Last I heard all he was looking for was an expression of interest.

I for one want to see how things shape up.

How did this get from a request for expressions of interest to the public lynching above?

Clearly spook is not the most eloquant of spokesman, this does not make his cause trivial.

I voted against MMP. Nobody listened to me then either.

The one down side to the Dis/Reputrable memebers list is that certain members are doing there best to spark controversy just to get one of the now coveted three spots.

Surely if you are not interested in contributing in a positive manner the least you could do is say "Not my cup of tea!" and unsubscribe this thread.

Thing is BD I am really, really interested in child welfare.

In order to express an interest I need to know what they are about...and to this end I've been trying to find out. When this muppet (not most eloquent doesn't cut it) repeats specious comments about posters not backing things up and then refers you to specific sites...and then says I'm jumping to idiotic concusions when I do go, cos that's not what they are doing they aren't sorted yet....what would you expect? So far he hasn't answered any specific questions put to him in this thread.

On the information I've been able to glean, despite speciifc questions on this thread, I believe that this organisation could actually be a threat to moving things forward on child abuse. Regardless of my perceived view of them as a vigilante group, the public perception would be focused on external abusers, and the appearance that something is done. I haven't even gone down the route of how they set up initially (since the core members can't be vetted for 12 months) because that is an operational issue.

Muppet is the strongest word I've used to describe Spook, and I haven't said "Don't do it". I have urged people to look and make up their own minds.

[Big Dog]

Thing is BD I am really, really interested in child welfare.

My above Blah is not targetted at those asking serious questiuons or at those expecting serious answers but at those who are baiting for the sake of baiting..... You know who you are!

This is an issue that is very important to me. I feel that something of this nature would gain some success as a lobby group, and could provide a fundraising and support network. I'm not asking that those who are critical don't post merely that any criticism be accompanied by the word constructive.

[wkid_one]

Read my other post - where I fully support the issue at hand....it just doesn't appear to be overly thought thru or well constructed in its delivery, management, organisation or structure.

I am all for reducing Child Abuse and any form of exploitation of those whose rights are easily trampled on. However - this appears to be a half arsed effort.

Of course if you ask for expressions of interest to support this cause you are going to get a resounding YES - therefore it is stupid to ask the question unless the ball is already rolling and there is something similar to action that can be attained.

To me I see little point in this thread - other than everyone going - yes this is a great idea (it would honestly surprise me if someone said no it isn't) - however this is as far as it goes???? What then is the point in asking a question - when the answer is a given - and there is no framework, structure, body, forum, action out the back of it at the moment.

It is like me saying - who would support the following groups
- Bikers against Rape
- Bikers against Animal Abuse (this would of course exclude Motu after the Horse Thread )
- Bikers against Spouse Abuse

The vast majority would all say yes - however if there was no immediate follow through to this consensus - what is the point in me asking the question??

By all means ask it - but do it when the body establishing the group is up and running and there can be some action out the back of it....

Has the larger already established OS group(s) got the endorsement/recognition of the Government bodies that also address Child Abuse (eqv to CYPS)??? Or are they just extremists?

What have they actually done to better the cause overseas?
What have the outcomes of their rally's been ($ earned for the cause, changes in legislation)?

It sounds to me that the group is just a bunch of people (upset by the likes of Bert Potter's around the world) who ride together and bitch about the inadequacies of the goverment system?

Yes - I support the idea - however it seems to have a few holes for my liking

The Mission Statement:
Bikers United Against Child Abuse (B.U.A.C.A) exists with the intent to create a safer environment for abused children. We exist as a body of Bikers to empower children to not feel afraid of the world in which they live. We are ready to lend support to our children by involving them with an established, united organization. We desire to send a clear message to all involved with the abused child that this child is part of our organization, and that we are prepared to lend our support to them by affiliation, and our physical presence. We stand at the ready to shield these children from further abuse.

This is very reactionary - doesn't really do much to prevent it from happening?

[Big Dog]

Read my other post - where I fully support the issue at hand....it just doesn't appear to be overly thought thru or well constructed in its delivery, management, organisation or structure.

I am all for reducing Child Abuse and any form of exploitation of those whose rights are easily trampled on. However - this appears to be a half arsed effort.

Of course if you ask for expressions of interest to support this cause you are going to get a resounding YES - therefore it is stupid to ask the question unless the ball is already rolling and there is something similar to action that can be attained.

To me I see little point in this thread - other than everyone going - yes this is a great idea (it would honestly surprise me if someone said no it isn't) - however this is as far as it goes???? What then is the point in asking a question - when the answer is a given - and there is no framework, structure, body, forum, action out the back of it at the moment.

It is like me saying - who would support the following groups
- Bikers against Rape
- Bikers against Animal Abuse (this would of course exclude Motu after the Horse Thread )
- Bikers against Spouse Abuse

The vast majority would all say yes - however if there was no immediate follow through to this consensus - what is the point in me asking the question??

By all means ask it - but do it when the body establishing the group is up and running and there can be some action out the back of it....

Has the larger already established OS group(s) got the endorsement/recognition of the Government bodies that also address Child Abuse (eqv to CYPS)??? Or are they just extremists?

What have they actually done to better the cause overseas?
What have the outcomes of their rally's been ($ earned for the cause, changes in legislation)?

It sounds to me that the group is just a bunch of people (upset by the likes of Bert Potter's around the world) who ride together and bitch about the inadequacies of the goverment system?

Yes - I support the idea - however it seems to have a few holes for my liking

And there it is the point! The problem is not the cause but the absolute lack of structure!
And now we have those issues bluntly raised, I now suggest spook takes his time and responds to these points AFTER seeking confirmation from those who he is speaking for, exactly rather than shooting from the hip and doing his own cause more harm than good.

A mission statement from the current governing body would not hurt either as this would clarify the aims without needing to know exactly how it will be when set up but how it is now.

This would facilitate us being able to offer productive input, you never know who your next bright idea will come from.

This kind of communication can only make the world a better place

[Big Dog]

The Mission Statement:
Bikers United Against Child Abuse (B.U.A.C.A) exists with the intent to create a safer environment for abused children. We exist as a body of Bikers to empower children to not feel afraid of the world in which they live. We are ready to lend support to our children by involving them with an established, united organization. We desire to send a clear message to all involved with the abused child that this child is part of our organization, and that we are prepared to lend our support to them by affiliation, and our physical presence. We stand at the ready to shield these children from further abuse.

This is very reactionary - doesn't really do much to prevent it from happening?

Yes it is and always will be unless they get around to sussing something simmilar to "The minority report".

The only other proactive things to do would be to lock up all people who fit the profile (inhumane) and education of children in how to help themselves and offenders in how to avoid temptation.

Unfortunately the human condition is flawed by its very nature.

[Jackrat]

Well I have been following This in the Oz site,Read every post on the subject.
The same things were said there as in here,Just in a funny accsent is all.
Yes there is going to be bulk shit to work out,Yes Their will be plenty of knockers,For all sorts of reasons.Like no way will I wear a fist or any other type of patch for any reason.But Thats small shit,These things even out. I give money now for Surf clubs,The west pac,Toy runs.Giving money and moral support to abused kids is just an extention of the same thing to me,As long as kids are seen to benifit from this I couldn't care less who or how it is done,But it would be more fun to do it with other Bikers I reckon.The Triumph owners club put on a run for Surf rescue, I support it even though I am not a member,Ulysses do the west pac,I support that Even though I am not a member,The same goes for BRONZ toy runs,So now somebody wants to bring us alltogeather for abused kids.Cool.From What I gather this is not and was never intended to be a front line Thing,More a supporting role from Those of us that will have a go.

[BaldyPete]

Thanks guys for the link here as what Ive read is typical with those that oppose the lifestyle as we know it...There are a few here who can understand Real child abuse but as you can see there are some that cant and they are the silver spooners who have never known what its like to be abused or have they cared, Many hard Core bikers have joined their respective clubs as they have never known family, Many have died from abuse or suicide and I guess thats a joke too, i have seen what some in this forum have said about gangs, Musnt be about Australia coz we got Bike clubs, its only the government and the cops who name them Gangs... In every club is a father and that father wants to protect his kids and and he can through the BUACA with his support we will grow to be a force for all them low life pedophiles that are released by Gay judges every day, The BUACA is lucky enough to have the support of real bikers and real bikers dont shit on their mates as some have done to this thread, Those that have shit on the BUACA and all that it stands for would have a problem dont you think, what are they so afraid off, I would be more inclined to support what most men would, I mean everyone has their own opinion but its just plain stupid to disrespect humanity....I urge all REAL bikers and their families support the BUACA or the BACA and all it stands for, We bikers are the last real hope for what others would have you forget, My brothers will fight for their rights and they will succeed in making child abuse a dirty word once more.................Real bikers know what its like to not have family values or know what its like to not play sport coz mum and dad were too wasted to worry about it, These kids are labeled as rejects and they carry that with them as adults, We will orginise runs and rallies where we can include these kids and their families as well as supply these kids with presents at xmas birthdays etc...Just cos mum and dad cant doesnt mean they have to be forgotten, We aim to help kids who are at risk of being abused as well as those that just want to belong, I am proud of the patch coz I designed it and I designed it to show that if you wanna fuck with kids then we are gonna fuck with you, That doesnt mean we are gonna take the law into our own hands but more of insist the law does its stuff to protect these kids as well as telling the abuser that 1000snds are now watching, now Ive heard a few here stand up and say they want to know more and its being discussed here in Australia as well as in the United states that New Zealand is going to have their own chapters and I guess that means those that oppose have to return to their little hovells or they are going to be eating their own words.... I only live 4 hours from you guys and I respect all my kiwi mates and there are hoards of them, None of them would ever knock what Im and my mates are doing and I would hope that none here would ever think of knocking what is just plain humanity doin what they do best...........please support us and allow those that want to help post words of wisdom and be REAL coz It aint cool to be a asshole.......... BaldyPete BUACA Queensland

[matthewt]

To Spook or BaldyPete,

After looking at your www site I noticed that to be a member or associate member you must have access to a bike of 750cc or greater.

Why the cc limit ??

And who does the "background checks" ??

[matthewt]

all them low life pedophiles that are released by Gay judges every day

I'm sure all the gay bikers/non-bikers out there will be impressed with this statement. To imply that gays are directly related to pedophiles is rather naive to say the least.

[PeteThePom]

Hmmmmm...debatable......probably just means a temporary loss of control...or the parent don't have a wide enough range of skills. Certainly don't think this should be illegal, or politicians should spend time looking at it. I think it's fair enough for organisations to show better alternatives and educate people so that they can choose the best parenting ways for themselves and their children that work.

I have to take you to task on this one bluninja for a variety of reasons!

The foremost is that I'm a parent myself I don't know if you are so I wont make any assumptions. The comment that particularly got my goat is "probably just means a temporary loss of control...or the parent don't have a wide enough range of skills"



Allow me to address the first point, loss of control. Yes this can happen, everyone has their breaking point and SOME parents can lose it altogether and do more than just smack their kids, in the worst cases ultimately beating them to death. However for a 'normal' parent to smack their child as a last resort to instil discipline into them I cannot and will not view as a loss of control. Your message undermines the majority of excellent parents out there who none the less occasionally have to resort to a well placed smack to discipline their child, being a parent is a tough enough job without having do gooders making blanket statements that can further undermine the confidence of decent parents(especially first timers) I continually question my approach to my daughter, always asking if I could have done better or done something differently and I haven't felt the need to use a 'smack' to make my point. However, if at some stage, as may well happen I feel the only way to correct bad behaviour is by a smack then I reserve the right to do so and if you think that displays a loss of control or not enough skills then your welcome to your life in la la land.



As a child at school I occasionally was given the slipper (albeit for major transgressions) and my father, would on rare occasions smack my arse if I was being a real little brat (deliberately putting my foot through the bathroom door being a fair example)



I did not grow up to feel victimised or traumatised by these events, indeed it was acknowledged in my generation that if you were really out of order then you'd get your backside smacked and do you know something, it worked because I grew up with a respect for those around me and with the realisation that if I did something wrong I could expect to be punished and I would accept that punishment and this expanded out to dealings with the law, if the local bobby caught us up to mischief, we'd either get a clip round the ear or the he'd have a quiet word with our parents and THAT WAS A DAMN SITE MORE EFFECTIVE THAN TAKING US TO THE POLICE STATION.



For a long time now, people have been saying, oh no we mustn't punish the poor children and we are now faced with an escalating problem of juvenile crime (a 7yr old shooting another is a recent example) and we wonder why??



Because like most 'politically correct bullshit' the pendulum has swung too far the other way and we have a generation of parents too bloody scared to punish their children in case they be accused of abuse or their children take them to court!! For fucks sake will people get real here? Children look to their parents and those around them for guidance as to what is and is not acceptable behaviour if the parents have their ultimate deterrent removed from them then what chance do they have? I used to get real upset when I was told off but nothing drove the point home quite as well as the occasional 'reminder' via a smacked arse, yes it hurt, for about 10 minutes and that was it, no fuss, no story, just you did wrong and this is the punishment, if you want to avoid it in the future then behave in an acceptable manner, period!



As for 'not having a wide enough range of skills' I'd argue that having that deterrent and using it appropriately and consistently is a skill, it's not a skill if you just regularly whack your kids to keep them on their toes. I guess you could liken it to the cold war, both sides had ballistic nuclear missiles but NEITHER side used them and why is that? Because both sides knew what would happen if they stepped over the line and physical chastisement should be viewed in the same way, it's there and it will be used if you step over the line, that’s not abuse, that’s discipline and discipline is what turns kids into well balanced adults (amongst other things) And don't be saying, oh kids shouldn't have to live with that threat hanging over them, life is all about threats. What will happen if u don’t get good grades, what will happen if you run across the road without looking, what will happen if you have unprotected sex etc etc. We use those perceived threats to guide us through life, riding a m/c is a threat and many of us do it because it's a threat we are willing to face and a risk we are willing to take.



Kids grow up very quickly these days thanks to the media and marketing vultures who realised what an untapped source of revenue kids represented and now it seems that parents are to be made powerless to guide and nurture their children as they see fit (yes discipline is part of nurturing your child, if you don’t agree go look it up in a dictionary)



This seems to have become a bit of a but one of my pet peeves is government or others interfering in my right to live my life as I see fit, the nanny state has taken enough power and responsibility away from the man in the street as it is and NO legislation in the world is going to stop the people who are inclined to abuse their kids from doing so, lets face it, the kind of people that think it's cool to frequently beat up on their kids, do you really think they're going to give a rats arse that it's now illegal to hit your kids at all?



I'll add that I'm not in anyway attacking the good work that the NSPCC and others organisations do, they do a tough job in a tough arena but to all you sandal wearing, bearded, Tibetan satchel carrying do gooder leftie veggie interfering fuckwits, GO AND DO SOMETHING BLOODY USEFUL FOR A FUKKEN CHANGE!



BTW Spook, I like the idea but not the execution, you can't meet violence with violence and expect children exposed to that kind of environment to develop into well balanced individuals, instead they will repeat the sins of their fathers as so often happens.

[Jackrat]

Spook and Co' Some thing you might keep in mind when conversing on this site,Is the size of the bike seen in NZ,Add that to the fact that the whole seen here is a lot more splintered than that in OZ.Like imagine if you had a base of half the population of Sydney,How many positive comments are you going to get??.The other thing is that this is mainly a Jap sports bike site With a high percentage of young Folks,Who as we know tend to care about nobody but themselfs anyway.Then another thing, When so much of the hard drugs in NZ are produced and sold by the 1% clubs and these are the very drugs that are fucking up our kids we don't try to bullshit our selfs it is other wise.You guys are seen as being supporters of these clubs so that will always be a stumbling block to you by itself.You can try to convince yourself this is not true and the clubs are some type of rebels with out a cause and have anybody but their own interests in mind, But I have family members in two OZ Clubs and one in NZ.So you see I have seen for myself how they operate.The last time I spoke to one of my brothers he was buzy doing time on behalf of Ugly,As he got busted delivering two Oz of coke and 50k to south Oz.So you see even though I agree with the aims of BUACA,there is a real double standard going on as soon as you bring 1%ers into it.
Frankly I feel anybody trying to tell me the clubs are the good guys are in fact Taking the piss or think I'm a fucking blind fool.
See what I mean a major stumbling block.I still have to laugh when I think of the JGMC knocking the slope heads at Cabra' for moving H when they themselfs move Coke,Speed,Smoko,ect Interstate.Gangs???Shit tell it to someone that hasn't been there.You know After reading my own words,I now reckon you guys are pissing in the wind.

[BaldyPete]

The idea of 750cc or greater is one that is none of my doing but as with most ideas may be questioned when its brought up at a club meeting, Oh and to MathewT Being naive is my fucking right and its my right to be upset that some judges do protect scum bags that do want to stick their penises into little boys asses just coz they want to Or maybe they forgot their medication or they were drunk....Sorry if I offended a few fags but I as sure as hell dont care ....Never will ...I have a right to protect kids from the likes of some men and women and If that means telling you the truth I will.......Is that the most constructive thing you can come up with...All members who are to be working with the children will be real men you know men who check out as men and women who check out as women, I guess the police will check out members and if you want to know anything else I suggest you apply for membership or you find out through our mission statement...
C'mon bring it on coz the more you criticise real men for doing what is needed in our communities then more you will never feel good about doin your bit to help our kids..When was the last time you heard about a scum bag that was interfiering with children being allowed to walk coz the judge took into account the fact the pedophile was of good character....MMMMM sounds like "why do we need Bikers helping abused Kids" I do have one last request from someone who does give a fuck Be Real and be honest about what you post as I am and always have...I dont want to help kids coz I want some glory in my life ..I wanna help kids coz Its a human thing to do...Some of us wanna ride bikes and some wanna just forget what abuse really is But then some of us want to make a change and make the world see that it took REAL bikers to show that you wanna fuck with kids then we are gonna fuck with you....By all accounts if you wanna take that the wrong way then you are the very reason for our being..................................BaldyPete BUACA
Ps My nephew is Gay My Wifes Best freind is Gay, Big Deal..............Next...

[bluninja]

I have to take you to task on this one bluninja for a variety of reasons!

The foremost is that I'm a parent myself I don't know if you are so I wont make any assumptions. The comment that particularly got my goat is "probably just means a temporary loss of control...or the parent don't have a wide enough range of skills"

Pete, fine, if you want the right to physically chastise your child, up to you. Read the last part of my post. There are better and more effective ways of educating a child. I will support organisations that provide this information in a non preachy way so that parents have the opportunity to learn perhaps new skills; and are able to make their own choices on what works for them. I would be against any government move to outlaw spanking, I'm not anti spanking, I'm just pro non spanking. By the way the word to really pick out is PROBABLY

My statements are sweeping and general, yes. But they reflect my beliefs, studies, and anecdotal evidence. I think it's great that you look to see if you are doing your best for your daughter; many people don't. Many people don't know about any other way to bring up children other than they way they were brought up. If you turned out right and you were spanked then it must work cos you turned out ok? (by the way you is not specifically YOU)

There's a lot of good research around explaining childhood brain developement, and why smacking is ineffective. I am no perfect parent (I have 3) but I am choosing not to use physical punishment; that doesn't mean I don't have really tough rules for my kids and they don't follow them. It also doesn't mean that I look down on other people who choose to have spanking in their armoury, nor do I lecture them (yeah yeah, I know this is what I did in my post...but this is a discussion forum).

Hope your vent got something out of your system.

[bluninja]

The idea of 750cc or greater is one that is none of my doing but as with most ideas may be questioned when its brought up at a club meeting, Oh and to MathewT Being naive is my fucking right and its my right to be upset that some judges do protect scum bags that do want to stick their penises into little boys asses just coz they want to Or maybe they forgot their medication or they were drunk....Sorry if I offended a few fags but I as sure as hell dont care ....Never will ...I have a right to protect kids from the likes of some men and women and If that means telling you the truth I will.......Is that the most constructive thing you can come up with...All members who are to be working with the children will be real men you know men who check out as men and women who check out as women, I guess the police will check out members and if you want to know anything else I suggest you apply for membership or you find out through our mission statement...
C'mon bring it on coz the more you criticise real men for doing what is needed in our communities then more you will never feel good about doin your bit to help our kids..When was the last time you heard about a scum bag that was interfiering with children being allowed to walk coz the judge took into account the fact the pedophile was of good character....MMMMM sounds like "why do we need Bikers helping abused Kids" I do have one last request from someone who does give a fuck Be Real and be honest about what you post as I am and always have...I dont want to help kids coz I want some glory in my life ..I wanna help kids coz Its a human thing to do...Some of us wanna ride bikes and some wanna just forget what abuse really is But then some of us want to make a change and make the world see that it took REAL bikers to show that you wanna fuck with kids then we are gonna fuck with you....By all accounts if you wanna take that the wrong way then you are the very reason for our being..................................BaldyPete BUACA
Ps My nephew is Gay My Wifes Best freind is Gay, Big Deal..............Next...

Geez it's hard to be constructive with assinine postings like this. Maybe BaldyPete and Spook should be locked in a room with all these abusers so they can talk some sense into them Though what comes out now appears that the focus of the group is protecting male children from homosexual paedophiles. Not sure how an abused girl would receive a group of men on bikes....but if you had female members....

Well this is an exclusive club! You have to be a REAL man (whatever that is), so presumably women (of either orientation) and gay men would be excluded.

Silver spooners? Don't know about real abuse? You don't me...you never will. I see you lot (BUACA) more in the role of abusers than anybody I've met on KB.

[Jackrat]

Spook and Co' Some thing you might keep in mind when conversing on this site,Is the size of the bike seen in NZ,Add that to the fact that the whole seen here is a lot more splintered than that in OZ.Like imagine if you had a base of half the population of Sydney,How many positive comments are you going to get??.The other thing is that this is mainly a Jap sports bike site With a high percentage of young Folks,Who as we know tend to care about nobody but themselfs anyway.Then another thing, When so much of the hard drugs in NZ are produced and sold by the 1% clubs and these are the very drugs that are fucking up our kids we don't try to bullshit our selfs it is other wise.You guys are seen as being supporters of these clubs so that will always be a stumbling block to you by itself.You can try to convince yourself this is not true and the clubs are some type of rebels with out a cause and have anybody but their own interests in mind, But I have family members in two OZ Clubs and one in NZ.So you see I have seen for myself how they operate.The last time I spoke to one of my brothers he was buzy doing time on behalf of Ugly,As he got busted delivering two Oz of coke and 50k to south Oz.So you see even though I agree with the aims of BUACA,there is a real double standard going on as soon as you bring 1%ers into it.
Frankly I feel anybody trying to tell me the clubs are the good guys are in fact Taking the piss or think I'm a fucking blind fool.
See what I mean a major stumbling block.I still have to laugh when I think of the JGMC knocking the slope heads at Cabra' for moving H when they themselfs move Coke,Speed,Smoko,ect Interstate.Gangs???Shit tell it to someone that hasn't been there.You know After reading my own words,I now reckon you guys are pissing in the wind.

Waiting waiting,,,,Or does this go in the, too hard bin.
You are going to HAVE to face the truth of this matter and be seen to do something,,See it's a bit hard to be standing in shit and preaching purity,It just don,t swing.Fuck talk about having a foot in both camps.
I guess your a real popular fell'a huh,,willing to bend both ways.