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Thread: MNZ restart rule change (again)

  1. #16
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    We have a few classes that are mixed together in National racing and in Club Racing. They have gone against what every other Championship in the world and instead of stating last completed lap, they have said last completed lap by the lead rider.

    So that means if the lead rider crosses the line on lap 7 of a 10 lap race then the red flag comes out behind him, then every other competitors results are taken from the last time they crossed the line which would be lap 6.

    So the race is determined by the lead rider. Its done 70% of the race. The race is declared. All good. Easy to under stand.

    Problem is.... Maybe its Formula 3 and Pro Twin. Mr F3 leader crosses the line for 7th lap and red flag goes out. Mr Pro Twin leader only on 6th lap so Pro Twin have only done 60% of the race.

    Do Pro Twin just restart? Most of the time, specially club days its a mixed grid, what happens to the grid positions?

    C. If 65% or more of the race distance is completed:
    a. This shall be declared a full race,
    b. The finishing order shall be at end of the last full lap completed by the lead rider before the stopping of the race,
    c. Full points will be awarded.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHOPPA View Post
    We have a few classes that are mixed together in National racing and in Club Racing. They have gone against what every other Championship in the world and instead of stating last completed lap, they have said last completed lap by the lead rider.

    So that means if the lead rider crosses the line on lap 7 of a 10 lap race then the red flag comes out behind him, then every other competitors results are taken from the last time they crossed the line which would be lap 6.

    So the race is determined by the lead rider. Its done 70% of the race. The race is declared. All good. Easy to under stand.

    Problem is.... Maybe its Formula 3 and Pro Twin. Mr F3 leader crosses the line for 7th lap and red flag goes out. Mr Pro Twin leader only on 6th lap so Pro Twin have only done 60% of the race.

    Do Pro Twin just restart? Most of the time, specially club days its a mixed grid, what happens to the grid positions?

    C. If 65% or more of the race distance is completed:
    a. This shall be declared a full race,
    b. The finishing order shall be at end of the last full lap completed by the lead rider before the stopping of the race,
    c. Full points will be awarded.
    The lead rider on track is the lead rider. If a race is declared then it's declared for the entire field, not for the individual classes.
    Zen wisdom: No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously. - obviously had KB in mind when he came up with that gem

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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mental Trousers View Post
    The lead rider on track is the lead rider. If a race is declared then it's declared for the entire field, not for the individual classes.
    That's not what the rule says.

    It says you must finish 65%. When the results get printed for the other class it is not going to have 65% completed.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustys View Post
    (6.9a an aternative machine in OTHER races not the same Race.)
    and to see rule 6.21a which now says you can on the basis the race has been nulled (if less than 2 laps), "it never happened". As you have identified, 6.9a needs a tidy up to fit with the new restart rule.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHOPPA View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mental Trousers View Post
    The lead rider on track is the lead rider. If a race is declared then it's declared for the entire field, not for the individual classes.
    That's not what the rule says.

    It says you must finish 65%. When the results get printed for the other class it is not going to have 65% completed.
    The 65% rule is listed in Chapter 6 - Conduct of Competitions so it doesn't apply to individual classes. If the leader does more than 65% and the race is declared that's it for everybody in that race. More than 65% was done so there's a result.

    If that rule was applied to each individual class instead of races then races with multiple classes would be a nightmare.
    Zen wisdom: No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously. - obviously had KB in mind when he came up with that gem

    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mental Trousers View Post
    The 65% rule is listed in Chapter 6 - Conduct of Competitions so it doesn't apply to individual classes. If the leader does more than 65% and the race is declared that's it for everybody in that race. More than 65% was done so there's a result.

    If that rule was applied to each individual class instead of races then races with multiple classes would be a nightmare.
    Well, it could be argued that a race with three classes - each of which has a separate staggered start - is in fact three races taking place simultaneously...
    I'm sure that if someone saw an advantage, it would be argued as just that.

    I would imagine that it should be made clear at riders briefing how it will be handled - and the class starting last will probably be told to please keep up....

    Again, it needs formal clarification as it looks like we'll have more multiple class races rather than less.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumph View Post
    Well, it could be argued that a race with three classes - each of which has a separate staggered start - is in fact three races taking place simultaneously...
    I'm sure that if someone saw an advantage, it would be argued as just that.
    Motorcyclists/racers don't need to see an advantage to argue haha.

    Even with a separate flag/lights to start each of the classes within a race that's the only part where they are treated separately. All other flags apply to everyone on track regardless. A full course yellow is so for everyone, same with a red flag and same with the chequered flag.

    Usually the multiple classes within a race thing is done for safety reasons, primarily the start and run to the first corner. For instance, the 125GPs often qualify well towards the front of the F3/Superlite field, but they have a super high first gear and take a lot to get off the line whereas F3/Superlite bikes such as the SV650 launch really hard and fast. So if there's a couple of rows of 125GPs it makes sense to separate them otherwise you're actually creating a dangerous situation and failing in your duty of care.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grumph View Post
    Again, it needs formal clarification as it looks like we'll have more multiple class races rather than less.
    Indeed.
    Zen wisdom: No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously. - obviously had KB in mind when he came up with that gem

    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mental Trousers View Post
    Motorcyclists/racers don't need to see an advantage to argue haha.

    Even with a separate flag/lights to start each of the classes within a race that's the only part where they are treated separately. All other flags apply to everyone on track regardless. A full course yellow is so for everyone, same with a red flag and same with the chequered flag.

    Usually the multiple classes within a race thing is done for safety reasons, primarily the start and run to the first corner. For instance, the 125GPs often qualify well towards the front of the F3/Superlite field, but they have a super high first gear and take a lot to get off the line whereas F3/Superlite bikes such as the SV650 launch really hard and fast. So if there's a couple of rows of 125GPs it makes sense to separate them otherwise you're actually creating a dangerous situation and failing in your duty of care.



    Indeed.
    That's incorrect as the president was set on my appeals. Only the Superbike was taken into consideration even though there were 3x classes in the same race which I have documented.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHOPPA View Post
    That's incorrect as the president was set on my appeals. Only the Superbike was taken into consideration even though there were 3x classes in the same race which I have documented.
    *precedent (sorry!!)

    I only skimmed the most recent decision. Can you point me to that?
    Zen wisdom: No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously. - obviously had KB in mind when he came up with that gem

    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity

  10. #25
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    I can prove it, happy to send it to you privately but dont want to dredge up all that drama.

    The fact remains.. When the results are printed, if the class you are racing in does not complete 65% then your race can not be declared. That is clearly what is says. Please point me to the rule that you are using to come to your conclusion?

    Remember to read the rules in sequence....

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