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Thread: Summer running - 2000 Ducati ST2

  1. #136
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    3rd March 2008 - 11:55
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllanB View Post
    Cost something like $250 to fix, pressure system to find leak, drain, pull a quarter of the shit off the engine to get to offending part, replace, refit, refill, pressure test ...

    Mechanic said it has at least another dozen of the same connections through the cooling system ...
    There's your mistake, if you want to own an old euro or even a ducati you need to be willing to buy parts from ebay and put the time in yourself if you don't want to be arse raped by mechanics, otherwise buy something <10 years old with <150k on the clock.

    Quote Originally Posted by AllanB View Post
    That was at the arse end of the extended aftermarket warranty and that warranty had been over used in the three years we had the car so we flicked it off for a Suzuki
    You do realise you'd probably fixed all of the things that were going to go wrong with it, and the next owner will have a dream run....and hope to god not a suzuki swift, most inaptly named car in the history of the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by OddDuck View Post
    NoelH - I got the thermostat (complete) off Stein Dinse, two weeks delivered ex Germany. They have a flat rate of EU 40 delivered to NZ / AUS so it's worth lining a few spares up for each order.

    Have a look at https://www.stein-dinse.biz/eliste/i...?sid=ggg&lg=en

    The exploded parts diagrams can be very handy plus also they have photos of the parts which can be very useful.
    That is a spectacularly useful link.
    Riding cheap crappy old bikes badly since 1987

    Tagorama maps: Transalpers map first 100 tags..................Map of tags 101-200......................Latest map, tag # 201-->

  2. #137
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    8th July 2018 - 07:46
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    Ducati ST2 2003
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    whakatane
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    19

    Parts Listing

    Hi guys

    I managed to get a full PDF parts catalogue from here

    http://www.corsa-jp.com/ducati/servi.../St2_Eu-00.pdf

    Quite handy for reassembling when you cannot quite remember how it came apart

  3. #138
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    8th July 2018 - 07:46
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    Ducati ST2 2003
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    whakatane
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    Clipons

    Heres one that doesn't seem to come up very often, most people want to raise their ST2 handlebars not lower them.

    I had been having a few back issues after long trips and after a few photos of me on the bike i finally figured out what i was doing to cause the problem, i had also realised that i never had a back issue on my SS900, that just destroys my wrists instead but not my back.

    So after looking and thinking a bit i realised on trips at higher speed or in head winds i was trying to tuck behind the windshield as i am mostly a lay down rider anyway, but to acheive that i was sliding back on the seat and that rolls my tailbone up because the only way to lay down was to move backwards because my hands were too high to move my shoulders down any further..

    To cut a long story short i managed to get a set of SS900ie clipons for $60 and figured nothing to loose and can always change back (and still can).

    1/ Raising the forks in the triple clamps
    Not too hard to do, had to remove the fairings to access the lower triple clamp bolts, I spent a lot of time checking fork travel (i have a cable tie on the forks to measure travel and my forks occasionally bottom out because they have M900 springs in them (because i am featherweight) so i know the point of maximum travel.
    That was my biggest area of concern, with the forks lowered i have only 5mm between the mudguard and the lower headlight cowling)

    2/ Fitting the clipons
    No real issues, had to drill a few new holes in the new bars to line up the pins on the 2 electrical switches correctly.

    3/ Fitting the brake and clutch levers back on.
    Heres where the problems began, the extra lug on the triple clamp on the outside that bolts the old handlebar forging to the triple clamp stops the levers rotating down far enough, I spent quite a bit of time on this and managed to get it acceptable by changing the lower lever clamp bolt from an allen head to a screw, obviously carving the lug off the triple clamp with a hacksaw would be easy enough but no going back.
    I had already checked there would be no clash on the fairing cutouts, those are so low one could almost believe they were made for clipons.

    4/ Dashboard
    I had a few issues with the hydraulic lines hitting the dashboard at full lock, a readjustment of the angle of the hydraulic lines at the banjo bolt on the rear of the master cylinder and a slight shortening of the turning circle adusters solve that.

    JOB DONE....

    Mostly perfect, the brake lever needs to rotate downward a little further, i will either get a SS900ie top triple clamp or a ST2 one and carve the excess off, apparantly the SS900 and ST2 have the same dimension triple clamp, I will get around to that sometime. OVerall the bars are 40mm lower and 25mm further forward that the old ones and angle down a bit more.

    How does it feel? The million dollar question????????????

    I am much more comfortable, now i can sit close to the tank and lie on the rear of the tank, my arms sit closer to the tank and if i rotate down i can actually put my lower arms in those 2 grooves on the tank that were made for arms to lie in.
    It is no where as low as my SS so still quite comfortable, I have done a few longer rides in the last 2 weeks and can actually find no negatives on the comfort front

    Certainly goes around corners quicker, i was a little concerned that the steepening of the steering from raising the forks would be noticeable but not really, the only thing i really notice is the back brake locks easier because less weight on the rear and the front brakes are a bit more powerful.

    Overall it handles better, as you might expect, more like a sports tourer than ever before.

    I wouldn't recommend this to everyone, most people seem to want their bars higher, I have had the wife on the back too and she actually likes it as she has more seat, that habit of mine of sliding my butt backwards was stealing her seat space....

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  4. #139
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    28th January 2015 - 16:17
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    2000 Ducati ST2
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    Lower Hutt
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    A quick comment on the Ducati OEM clutch pressure plate. I went through this earlier with the 900SS...

    The clutch is having trouble releasing properly, particularly when hot. The bike bangs its way through the gears, particularly neutral into first. I've been putting a lot of work into checking friction and steel plates flatness, notching on hub and basket, air bubbles in the hydraulic circuit etc but I hadn't really had a look at the pressure plate itself.

    The stock OEM item is a diecast item, made from zinc-aluminium alloy and covered in weight saving cutouts. It's been braced and buttressed very nicely, with stress relieving curves everywhere, but it's featherlight. Taking it off the ST2, cleaning it up and having a good look at it showed that it's got cracks. This cracking follows the pattern seen in the 900SS but isn't quite as advanced.

    Aluminium isn't particularly stiff. It gets less stiff with temperature. The pressure plate will get hot as the clutch operates, both from engine heat and friction off the clutch pack. Cracking definitely won't help. It's not really a stretch to imagine that the de-clutching problems have a lot to do with this pressure plate flexing under load.

    Effectively the plate operates like a beam. The clutch plunger rod pushes it in the middle, the six springs push it the other way on either side, and beyond that is the radius where it contacts the clutch pack. If it flexes then it effectively looses travel. Taken to the extreme, if it flexed enough then the clutch wouldn't release at all.

    I went looking for something in the aftermarket and found the pictured items from Oberon. Delivery took just under a week via the expensive shipping option. They're the simplest design available, basically zero bling factor and exactly what I want. No cutouts, no weight saving, no fancy graphics. I changed the ST2 plate over tonight, haven't ridden it yet, but clutch release does seem improved just turning it by hand.

    EDIT: took the bike for brief ride and yes clutch action is improved fairly significantly. Well worth doing if you're starting to have issues with disengagement and gearchanges going through with a clunk.
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  5. #140
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    28th January 2015 - 16:17
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    2000 Ducati ST2
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    Lower Hutt
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    Output shaft collar

    A while ago I'd posted about the output shaft (to front sprocket) having an issue with sprocket float and chewing the retaining washers up fairly regularly.

    It looks like the bike was run for a long time with the rear wheel poorly aligned to the chain. This would drag the front sprocket either inboard or outboard. I've sorted the alignment, but that still leaves me with an output shaft that will eat retaining washers pretty regularly. The (now) 45 degree angle of the spline ends will just cut its way straight into the washers. I had a look online for fixes - various people have tried various things - but it's not as straightforward a problem as I'd like. There's persistent rattling, it's a grindy environment that constantly sucks road dust in, and the sprocket itself is a loose fit to the spline and rattles. Any rigid fix will rapidly get un-rigid, and might even present a hazard if it could come loose at speed and then cause some kind of failure.

    In the end I've gone with a simple split collar, clamping on the output shaft. This was fairly straightforward to turn up in a lathe and then hacksaw for the split, drill press for the cap screw etc. It simply clamps on the OD of the splined shaft. I'd got as much thread engagement on the cap screw as possible and it's threadlocked. There's no attempt to match the spline and no need to, it doesn't transmit torque. It's simply a stop against the sprocket walking inboard.

    I've put a few thousand k's of riding on it - around town, back country etc. So far so good, no issues as yet.
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  6. #141
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    28th January 2015 - 16:17
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    A quick look at the collar, during the 50,000 km service.

    There's been just enough motion between sprocket and collar that there's been wear. Measuring with the verniers has shown thickness variation of 0.3mm around the perimeter - it hasn't been wearing parallel. The output shaft has shiny metal at the already damaged ends of the spline. However the lock plate appears in good order, there's light dishing on the outboard side but almost no damage inboard. The spline itself has the dreaded red dust, indicating high pressure steel on steel contact. The sprocket has a lot of loose float.

    The collar hasn't loosened on the spline, which I'd been concerned about as a possibility.
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  7. #142
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    28th January 2015 - 16:17
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    2000 Ducati ST2
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    Loose front sprocket shim

    Just having a play with an idea tonight - shimming the sprocket to the spline to reduce or eliminate rattly diameters float.

    I took a rough measurement of radial float via dial gauge, finding it to be around 0.50 mm or so. I.e. 0.25mm each side.

    The pictures show the basic concept. A strip of shim (0.127 mm brass here) is progressively rolled around the output shaft's spline. The collar is used to keep it straight (provide a 90 degree reference surface), the pin and the toolmaker's clamp hold the first groove to the spline, then the next groove is formed via the ruler's edges. Clamp and form, move clamp along one, repeat for required number of splines. Tinsnip to just under required length.

    The shim isn't a perfect match to the spline of course. It'll have S curves and similar, where the splines are hard edges and corners. This is the reason for going undersize on the thickness - there'll ideally be enough spring to take up any slack or free play, at least if I were to do this again in stainless.

    The front sprocket's inboard spline edges were chamfered and rounded off via needle files. This is to make sure that the edges of the shim were pushed into the spline's forms instead of binding up on a hard edge. The use of a high molybdenum grease also helped with assembly.

    Assembly: the shim was test fitted to the sprocket, pushed into the grooves with the scriber, then removed and fitted to the output shaft. The collar braced it against slipping out at the rear. The sprocket was then carefully pushed on by hand, with care taken to make sure the shim was feeding in correctly. A bit of rocking sideways got it done, there was no need to use some sort of pusher bolt arrangement or high amounts of force.

    The sprocket is now nicely centered and non-rattly or wobbly. For now, anyway. I don't think that the brass is going to hold up for very long, it's simply too soft, but as a prototype it's worth a try. The moly grease on both sides of the shim should help, and anyway soft brass is sacrificial.

    As to why I did this... the bike's been getting rough to ride. I've been thinking it's the fuelling, but the sprocket clacking its way through it's own spline could be part of what's happening.
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  8. #143
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    8th July 2018 - 07:46
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    Ducati ST2 2003
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    whakatane
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    Have you considered putting grease on the spline? That could possibly stop some of the wear
    Just a thought i had on reading this.

  9. #144
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    28th January 2015 - 16:17
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    2000 Ducati ST2
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    Yes, I've been doing that, but with very limited success - the joint is so open that the grease gets pushed and flung out very quickly. Unfortunately the spline is already heavily worn, it was like this when I got the bike. Previous owner apparently used it as a commuter (yes really) and we all know how that goes... if it isn't broke then don't bother preventative maintenancing it.

    I've got a couple of hundred k's on the shim now and so far so good.

  10. #145
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    28th January 2015 - 16:17
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    2000 Ducati ST2
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    Lower Hutt
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    New battery and effects

    Just a quick note about this... I've recently replaced the battery (a PowerRoad of unknown age) with a new Yuasa, after having some rough running issues and momentary cut-outs while riding. Not the best really... the new battery has greatly improved both, plus starting, but there have been two unexpected pluses:

    1) More consistent engine temperatures

    2) Better fuel economy

    It had been threatening to overheat in sustained slow running, and also going through petrol at a fairly quick rate. I don't have hard numbers on either unfortunately.

    I did notice after the last period with the PowerRoad that the battery itself had been warm, and continued to be warm even after the engine right next to it had cooled down. I also tested ac voltage across it with my cheapo Jaycar meter, finding 0.15-ish V ac across the battery terminals with the engine running. I haven't run the same test with the Yuasa just yet though.

    I think I've been getting a weak spark on the non-fired cylinder. I've been through this before, with the 900SS... a high resistance anywhere in the line back to the battery, or in the battery itself, could do this. An inductive spike on one ignition coil (normal firing) will be seen by the other coil on any linked system such as a V-twin, and will cause a voltage movement on that non-firing coil's primary and then secondary winding. That'll happen without the coil being switched due to the coil's own inductance. At low pressure you don't need much in the way of kV to spark, especially if it's momentary rather than sustained.

    On one cylinder this weak spark won't matter, it'll happen during the exhaust stroke. On the other cylinder it'll happen during either induction or compression. There'll be a tiny burp instead of proper combustion, the nascent flame bubble will quench, but the cylinder will still have to compress mixture which is hotter than it should be. Then it fires properly, at the correct time, but with higher compression due to the initial higher temperatures. The engine will be fighting itself a bit. So: rough running, loss of power, poor fuel economy. The bike's much improved and all it took was to replace the battery.

    It isn't quite where I want it though and I'm wondering about the ignition relay/s. A high resistance on the relay contacts would do this as well. They're what I suspect are the original Bosch components. It's been 20 years and 50,000 km's; does anyone have experience with how well relays age?

    No pics sorry.

  11. #146
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    7th March 2006 - 21:17
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    Kawasaki Vulcan
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    New plymouth
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    Summer running - 2000 Ducati ST2

    Love your threads, make for very informative reading, keep em coming.

    Re the relay query. I take it is meant being the good ole mechanical relay commonly found in automotive use.

    Rare for mechanical relay contacts to break down (unless cheap Chinese junk) to the point they create connectivity issues (i.e. connectivity across closed contacts is in ohms instead of
    Milli ohms) When closed/energised there is considerable pressure on the contacts by design to ensure a low resistance current path is maintained.

    Typical automotive relays are fairly robust, current flow across contacts is typically well below what they can actually electrically handle consistently without creating excessive pitting of the surfaces.

    Pitting of the contact surfaces can occur where excessive amperage persists, typically as a result of poor voltage...... usually a battery issue however can be a result of a high resistance joint in the circuit somewhere.

    A visual check (if accessible) of the contact surfaces can easily spot poor contact condition. If badly pitted, bin it as its not worth the hassle of attempting to clean up being contacts are multi coated surfaces.

    Weak points on a relay. The spring mechanism can lose tension, but not a commonly occurring issue. Wear issues on the hinge section, this can cause contacts to mis-align thus cause damage or poor connectivity across contacts, but again not common ( have seen this on numerous Subaru’s for some reason) Coil issues, these are common, if it hums or ‘chatters’ its knackered, bin it, simple as that.

    If the relays on your bike are the type that can have the cover removed to expose the workings check and see if its had water, crc or wd40 in it..... if so..... bin it. They can, however be cleaned using good ole electrical circuit cleaners.

    Changing mechanical relays for solid state / electronic relays can be a good alternative but need to be suitably sized and good quality. Stray voltages (as caused by the coils or other components) can be catastrophic for them. Other than that are bulletproof if a tad pricy (well they were when i was using them ten or so years back)

    Lastly, check the connection points, these are often neglected and are regularly the cause of most issues from erratic to complete non operation of either the relay or the accessory being switched.

    Have fun


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  12. #147
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    8th July 2018 - 07:46
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    Ducati ST2 2003
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    whakatane
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    When i was down south at the burt monroe this year in Feb i had starting issues develop, firstly intermittent but then i got to invercargill and it just would not crank.
    So i ended up pulling the fairing off in the Railway Hotel car park and doing some quick diagnosis (I am an auto electrician BTW)

    Turned out the side stand relay was clicking in but not making circuit ( bit of a redundant relay in my JAPANESE ST2 as there is no switch on the sidestand and the coil wires are bridged, basically the relay turns on an off with the ignition). Managed to fix easily with a $20 relay from Repco.


    Unlike my BMW which uses all sorts of odd BOSCH relays the ST2 uses only 2 types of relays ( Excluding the flasher ) they are common as and since the burt i have deleted the side stand relay and replaced the main relays (Main, HEAD and Fan) and put one of each kind in my spares under the seat, total cost less than $100.

    The fan relay is important and is located in the tail piece above the headlight.

    So my advice, just replace them every 10 years and carry 1 spare of each type.

    Thanks for the battery article too, very interesting
    I just changed my fork Oil too, that was fun.... three hands required until i figured out how to use a tie down to take the tension off the spring

    Noel H

  13. #148
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    28th January 2015 - 16:17
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    2000 Ducati ST2
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    Lower Hutt
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    Thanks for the replies guys. ruaphu - that's good technical info, I'd been toying with the idea of popping covers and mechanically cleaning contacts but not now!! NoelH - I like the idea of just replace every 10 years for less than $100, and I definitely like the idea of having new spares to hand - I take it that I can whip in to any auto electrical shop and they'll have the types needed?

    I took the bike out for a decent ride just a couple of days ago (roughly 350 km's) and it's now lost it's remaining rough edges. I'm suspecting gunked up fuel in the injector nozzles finally getting washed out. Short rides, hot injector bodies once stopped, fuel turning into varnish and so on. Anyway, range is now roughly 380 km on a 21 litre tank for country riding, that's around 18 km's / litre, or 5.4 litres per 100 km. Again, I can't be sure what it was prior to replacing the battery, but I did two fuel stops yesterday when usually I'd have done three.

  14. #149
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    8th July 2018 - 07:46
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    Ducati ST2 2003
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    whakatane
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    Yes, BNT, Repco or Auto electrical, the 2 relays they use ( the square main one (one required) and the smaller rectangle ones (2 - 3 required)) are very common, if they are charging more than $25 (retail) then look sideways, trade they are about $12 + GST.

    I dont carry a spare of the rectangle one as i can pinch the high beam on if requried.

    Do you need a wiring diagram, email me hutchingsnoel@gmail.com if you do.

    Thats about right, i can get 380kms at a pinch out of a tank but start to get twitchy about 320kms.

    I put the MBP retaining collets in mine a month ago when i did the valve clearances, will let you guys know how they go, i got my exhausts down to nearly zero and hopefully they will stay there, going to check after 2000km, they are not too dear for a 2v, $125US a set.

    Hopefully i can do valve clearances less in the future.


    Just changed my fork oil to 5w too, made a big difference, doesn't punch my wrists as hard.

  15. #150
    Join Date
    28th January 2015 - 16:17
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    2000 Ducati ST2
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    Lower Hutt
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    Thanks Noelh - that's good news about the relays. OK, will take a couple of cellphone piccies and go shopping when things open again.

    I'm good for wiring diagrams, I have a full set of the factory workshop manuals in sleeve binders. One thing these manuals have which I think is gold is line drawings (probably from photos) of the wiring loom and how things are laid out, with a clear map of component location.

    MBP Collets: that's a good idea too, I checked valve clearances as part of the 50,000 km service and everything is very slightly opening up. It's almost certainly the stock half circle wire retainers. I had the same with the 900SS and once I put the MBP's in, the valve clearances stayed put.

    My manuals said that the factory oil was 7.5 W, here in good old NZ I had a choice between 5W and 10W fork oil. I went with the 10. Mixed feelings - it's definitely a bang if you go over something but it's better for brisk riding between throttle and brake. Depends what you want to do I guess.

    It's been a good day out riding, brilliant weather through the Wairarapa today.

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