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Thread: Summer running - 2000 Ducati ST2

  1. #76
    Join Date
    28th January 2015 - 16:17
    Bike
    2000 Ducati ST2
    Location
    Lower Hutt
    Posts
    836
    Sorting out an issue with the Oxford Hot Grips - the left keeps coming loose. It was too loose a fit on the bars and despite using plenty of superglue it still breaks free, the latest time was just after coming back from the SI trip. This is the third time I've glued it on, hopefully it's the last...

    I've increased bar diameter by using a rolled 0.10 mm shim. The shim material was bought through Blackwoods Protector, but it's widely available as kits at most engineering supplies shops - you get an envelope of common thicknesses. Marking and cutting was as simple as ruler, Sharpie and tin snips, rolling was done with a screwdriver clamped in the bench vise and bare hands.

    I didn't manage to photo the gluing process due to having no time before the superglue would start setting, but here's the rough sequence:

    Get shim fitted about 1/4 way into grip
    Put glue on outside surface of shim, compress shim, push shim into grip
    Dribble glue down split line of shim inside grip, run a ring of glue around inner perimeter of shim, then rapidly push shim onto bar
    Wipe any excess off.

    I wore safety glasses and gloves for all this of course (way too easy to glue fingers together or eyes shut etc) and had cheapo bath towels down over the bike's bodywork.

    This done I then left it well alone while the glue set. It's very tempting to see it it's gone solid immediately after placing it by twisting the thing in order the test the strength of the bond, but if it breaks free, it'll never set properly. I'll be able to test it out next time I ride.
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  2. #77
    Join Date
    28th January 2015 - 16:17
    Bike
    2000 Ducati ST2
    Location
    Lower Hutt
    Posts
    836
    Fitting Bark Busters for winter.

    It's going to be (ahem) interesting to see what comments I get, while out riding with these. I got caught in a southerly front plus rain during the SI tour and it would have been very nice to have had weather protection for fingers.

    The guards themselves are the flexible textile versions of the usual ABS and aluminium Bark Busters. They're intended to flex when contacting fairings, so should go onto a range of sport / road touring bikes. They're obviously practical. Not sure about the look though...

    They come with a fitting kit. I wanted to keep the bar end mirrors and this meant either stacking anodised or painted components and hoping everything held together, or making custom fittings. I've heard too many stories about bar ends falling off during rides so it was off to the workshop for me.

    Bare aluminium on bare aluminium has an interesting property: it is a terrible bearing pair. The metal will instantly surface weld if there's any relative motion and then the surfaces tear each other up. The counterpoint to this is that it's a great clamping pair. The metal components will grip each other, even with relatively low clamping forces. Of course I'll have to see how I go with actual ride use and weathering.
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  3. #78
    Join Date
    28th January 2015 - 16:17
    Bike
    2000 Ducati ST2
    Location
    Lower Hutt
    Posts
    836
    Back into the clutch, as well. It's started juddering again, and there are notchy gear changes, so clearly the work done earlier hasn't fixed everything.

    I stripped the cover, pressure plate and springs, then the plate stack, hub and basket. While doing this I noticed that the basket has a wear pattern on the tangs that I haven't seen before: it's sawtoothed in profile. What I've seen on Ducati baskets before has been semi-circled or dished in nice uniform curves matching the plate tangs.

    The wear profile is also asymmetric, it's much more heavily worn in the drive direction than in on the engine braking side of the tangs. These other sides of the basket tangs are worn in the usual dish shape, indicating random clatter while idling in neutral, and this wear is much lighter.

    The plate stack, carefully filed earlier, is not only mushroomed again but also angled in the drive direction. No wonder the clutch isn't releasing properly - the contact on the basket isn't square, it's angled, and will tend to hold the friction plates in instead of letting them slide outwards.

    I'd noticed earlier that the basket seems to be loose on its bearings. After some thought, it looks like what's happening is that the basket is moving (ever so slightly) relative to the plate stack while riding with the clutch engaged, and this movement is causing this wear pattern on the tangs. It's happening under load, not while clattering in neutral. Or so I think. Certainly the basket shouldn't be this loose on its bearings. The friction plate tangs have worn very rapidly and gone from square filed to tapered, the damage I'm seeing has happened in just 2,000 km.

    I've left the friction plates as is for now, but have filed the basket tangs straight and square. This is a bodge fix at best unfortunately, the friction plate tang to basket clearance is now a mile wide and everything's going to rattle, causing further rapid mushrooming and wear. While doing this I noticed what look like flap disk marks on the basket, it seems that someone has been in doing this before. Certainly the 8 x M8 bolts holding the basket to its carrier haven't been properly sealed. On assembly these are supposed to be gasketed with Loctite 510, so that engine oil doesn't enter the clutch compartment.
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  4. #79
    Join Date
    28th January 2015 - 16:17
    Bike
    2000 Ducati ST2
    Location
    Lower Hutt
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    836
    Changing out the primary drive output wheel's bearings.

    Clutch completely stripped (hub and basket both off), it's the engine cover next. Before doing that I pulled the spacer from the input shaft spline.

    This wee beast has an O-ring on an internal groove. It grips the shaft tightly and there's no positive feature on the thing to pull or lever at. I'd ending up taking a Dremel to the one on the 900SS to make slots and then using a bearing puller, this time around I made myself a handle via two hose clips. The 1/4" spanner and screwdriver bit were needed for tightening these up, there isn't access for normal tooling unless slender wall sockets are available.

    Once the pump cover is off, the output wheel slides out. I used my slide hammer set to yank the outboard bearing and seal in one go. This showed quite a bit of black gunk on the narrow outer bearing - it looks like this area of the engine doesn't see much in the way of oil circulation. Particulates build up on the seal side of the bearing. It's easy to see why the basket might have got a bit wobbly.

    As to why this might have happened, given that it's the same design as the 900SS and that was fine until engine rebuild at 46,000 miles, my best take is that it's a combination of my clutchless changes during the East Cape tour, the 10,000 km oil change intervals, and sitting around. A lot of black gunk seems to be in the oil that I drained (I'm at 35,000 km now, i.e. 5,000 since the last oil change). If the bike's been sitting for long intervals, and I know that the previous owner wasn't putting high mileages onto it per year, it's also believable that the bearing wasn't being wetted enough to be lubricated properly during engine startups. It's then placed under immediate load as soon as first gear is selected.

    I drove the replacement bearings home with a socket and hammer. Simple enough but there were two problems, both of them my fault:

    1) the bearings in this gear wheel sit face to face via a matched circlip and central spacer, these move just enough that they aren't a solid base to drive against. Every time I drove one bearing home I'd knock the other out. I finally realised that I couldn't drive against the wheel with the bearing itself sitting unsupported except for a soft rag, I had to put something underneath both wheel and bearing.

    2) any dirt left in the socket, if it's been sitting upright on the bench or similar, will get knocked out and go straight through the nice new bearing on the first hammer blow. Gotta clean that socket properly first... I ended up spraying CRC through the bearings and then re-oiling prior to assembly.
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  5. #80
    Join Date
    28th January 2015 - 16:17
    Bike
    2000 Ducati ST2
    Location
    Lower Hutt
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    836
    Changing the large diameter seal in the pump cover. This is early (in terms of km's) but since I've got the spare available and the cover off, it makes sense to. The original seal does show signs of wear.

    As far as I'm aware neither Ducati nor the aftermarket make any kind of a tool for this job. I'm not even sure what the official factory procedure would be... I ended up using a lathe and a drill press to make my own dedicated tool for this job.

    The tool is in three main parts:

    A collar with a throat wide enough for the seal to fit into at one side and flanged down at the other
    A press plate, wider diameter than the seal
    A driving plate, very slightly smaller diameter than the seal and machined precisely to fit the metal body of the seal at the rear.

    There's a bit of juggling of plates, seal and collar to make the thing work but the basic idea is to drive the old seal out with the driving plate and then drive the new seal in with the press plate. The press plate being larger diameter than the seal means that it'll drive to the correct depth relative to the pump cover.

    An improvement to the tool would be a very large diameter threaded fastener fixed in the center (60mm or larger) instead of using 8 independent screws, but this works, albeit with a lot of gradual tightening and some tilting of the seal relative to the cover.
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  6. #81
    Join Date
    28th January 2015 - 16:17
    Bike
    2000 Ducati ST2
    Location
    Lower Hutt
    Posts
    836

    Alignment

    Since I've bought the bike I've been thinking it's got a slightly twisted front end. A minor whoopsie at some point, slight wrench of the triple trees, perfectly rideable as is but annoying all the same. Today I finally got onto straightening it out and had an unexpected result.

    The short answer is that the triple tree / steering stem / forks etc are all fine. I've got a bent RH clip-on. It's folded enough that the outboard end is about 10mm off where it should be. No wonder the bike feels a bit weird sometimes, or I've felt like I'm riding twisted up.

    This is something quite new to me. I've certainly had bikes drop and rotate their clip-ons around the fork leg, or similar... actually bending one of these would take some force. They aren't tubular, these clip-ons (if that's the right name?) are solid aluminium castings. Given that they bolt fairly rigidly onto the top triple clamp plate though and there's no way to slip, it's believable that a relatively minor spill could do this.

    The giveaway was eyeballing the line of the ruler against the line of the grip. I did this on both sides and the LH gives a parallel line between ruler and grip, with the RH as pictured. Took quite a while to get there though... I spent ages mucking around with lining the wheel up and trying to twist the bars. The giveaway was was that the bar bases measured the same on both sides (with wheels in line via string and measurements taken via tape measure) but the bar ends didn't.

    As to the wheel alignment method... it's a bit ghetto but it works, albeit with a serious drawback. The string is placed in line with the rear tyre's edges, then the offset from the front tyres edges is measured via a ruler and the front wheel turned in-line with that. The bar ends positions can then be checked against a datum point on the frame (these datums have to be symmetrical about the centerline of course). It greatly helps to be able to sight down the line of each string from vertically overhead, which I couldn't quite do here. The contact against the rear tyre forward edge has to be bang on, just touching and no more. Previously I've just squinted and sight-lined against tyre edges, which is fuzzy at best. The string is an improvement over this.

    The drawback is that there's no clamping force on the front wheel whatever. If the front end is off the ground, as it has to be with the fork clamp bolts released, any attempt at an adjustment means having to get down to the ground and realign everything before measuring whether or not the alignment worked. There's a lot of up-and-down. It's OK for one bike but if I had to do this several times I'd probably look into making a couple of full length beams with offsets (for the front tyre) and through bolts for clamping.

    Anyway... a very long day to find out that one component is bent and needs replacing. I'm not keen to just bend it back. I have no idea how much of this kind of abuse the cast alloy bar can take and I'd really rather not have the thing come off in my hand after hitting a decent bump in the road.

    While the front end was up, I took the time to check front and rear wheel bearings, head bearings, and swingarm bearings. Everything came in fine. That's just push-pull while sitting on the garage floor of course.

    Some handling issues may be down to wear on the tyres of course - I replaced both front and rear just after purchasing the bike, meaning that the Bridgestone T30 Evo's have now done approx. 9,000 km.
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  7. #82
    Join Date
    14th July 2006 - 21:39
    Bike
    2015, Ducati Streetfighter
    Location
    Christchurch
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    8,192
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    The throttle side may be slightly longer than the clutch due to the extra hardware for the throttle where there is only a one switch block on the left. Which would give a different measurement.

  8. #83
    Join Date
    28th January 2015 - 16:17
    Bike
    2000 Ducati ST2
    Location
    Lower Hutt
    Posts
    836
    Quote Originally Posted by AllanB View Post
    The throttle side may be slightly longer than the clutch due to the extra hardware for the throttle where there is only a one switch block on the left. Which would give a different measurement.
    Thanks Allan but I'm not measuring length here, I'm looking at whether things are in line and straight or not. Hopefully the photo shows that the grip isn't in line with the ruler's edges. The left hand grip was straight and true by the same test, in comparison.

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