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Thread: Summer running - 2000 Ducati ST2

  1. #46
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    3rd March 2008 - 11:55
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    Quote Originally Posted by OddDuck View Post
    No problem there, it's just that the low height / high torque of the fastener can very easily introduce a problem due to the chamfer on most sockets. I had a look with my existing cheapo Powerbilt set and found that I'd get 3mm of engagement on the fastener, maybe less. There's 7mm of height to work with. Torque front: 63 Nm. Torque rear: 83 Nm.

    The next bit was that the steel plates under the swingarm nuts each had a tab bent. I'd guess that they got abused during tightening up, rotating under the nut instead of staying in position on the swingarm.
    Usually I just swing a big crescent on the axle nuts, haven't had them fall off yet. I was actually contemplating getting a couple of spanners laser cut out of some plate stainless, one day when I get around to it.

    I've had to straighten the tabs on the axle plates as well, and while I'm there mark the centre, and mark the centre of the alignment marks before I put them back on. It's not the most elegant arrangement I've ever seen.
    Riding cheap crappy old bikes badly since 1987

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  2. #47
    Join Date
    28th January 2015 - 16:17
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    2000 Ducati ST2
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    Lower Hutt
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    Quote Originally Posted by neels View Post
    Usually I just swing a big crescent on the axle nuts, haven't had them fall off yet. I was actually contemplating getting a couple of spanners laser cut out of some plate stainless, one day when I get around to it.
    My mate was doing similar with his bike, just using a crescent on the axle nuts. He reckoned he'd been doing it up good and tight. We were halfway through a multi-dayer when we realised that his chain was getting slack... the rear axle was walking forward. The only thing holding it really was the adjustor bolts. It turned out that the best he could do with a 12" crescent was about 25-ish Nm; the torque figure for the rear axle was 100 Nm.

    Your situation hopefully is a bit better...

    Toledo torque wrench in the 1/2" format, about $85 to $110. 30mm socket, $18 or so.

    A while ago I tried tightening by hand versus using a torque wrench, finding out whether I was any good at it... turned out I was rubbish, and after that I've used the torque wrench.

  3. #48
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    3rd March 2008 - 11:55
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    Quote Originally Posted by OddDuck View Post
    My mate was doing similar with his bike, just using a crescent on the axle nuts. He reckoned he'd been doing it up good and tight. We were halfway through a multi-dayer when we realised that his chain was getting slack... the rear axle was walking forward. The only thing holding it really was the adjustor bolts. It turned out that the best he could do with a 12" crescent was about 25-ish Nm; the torque figure for the rear axle was 100 Nm.

    Your situation hopefully is a bit better...

    Toledo torque wrench in the 1/2" format, about $85 to $110. 30mm socket, $18 or so.

    A while ago I tried tightening by hand versus using a torque wrench, finding out whether I was any good at it... turned out I was rubbish, and after that I've used the torque wrench.
    Probably should check them properly then....particularly as there is no locking mechanism whatsoever on the nuts.

    Correct torque on axle bolts is a nice idea, not only so the nuts don't fall off but also so you don't end up with crushed swingarms like I've seen on a couple of bikes, I haven't had a good look at where the axle goes through on the ducati to see how it's put together and if overtightening will damage it.

    I can usually take a reasonable guess at getting the torque about right, it helps to have tested torque wrenches for a living for a few years. From experience I know that the point when my arm starts shaking swinging on the 1/2" power bar doing up cortina head bolts is about 80lbf.ft
    Riding cheap crappy old bikes badly since 1987

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  4. #49
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    28th January 2015 - 16:17
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    Quote Originally Posted by neels View Post
    Correct torque on axle bolts is a nice idea, not only so the nuts don't fall off but also so you don't end up with crushed swingarms like I've seen on a couple of bikes, I haven't had a good look at where the axle goes through on the ducati to see how it's put together and if overtightening will damage it.
    The axle tensioners function as spacers inside the swingarm box sections, the box section will flex enough to nip up against the tensioner. After that it's solid metal the whole way through.

    Crushed swingarms? What's been going on?

  5. #50
    Join Date
    28th January 2015 - 16:17
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    2000 Ducati ST2
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    Lower Hutt
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    Fairings off in the garage today for the first time.

    This is due to the motor cutting out on me yesterday during a trip downtown. I'd been just about to park up anyway, it died as I was walking the bike backward into the park... righto, maybe it's an overheat shutdown or something. Go off and do things, give it twenty minutes and see if it comes back after it's cooled down.

    Er, no. I was turning the key and getting dash and lights but no engine joy whatever. The starter motor wouldn't even spin up, let alone turn the engine over. Right. Cutting a long story short, it turned out to be blown fuses. The two 7.5 A fuses had cooked and failed, for reasons unknown. Replacement got me home, however this isn't a good way to go out on the open road. Investigations needed.

    Just some things noticed now that the fairings are finally off... all the wellnuts are rooted. So are the vibration isolators carrying the dash instruments, and the plastic instrument panel is cracked at the mounts too. The fairings feature concealed fasteners, which is a pain. The coils are on either flank of the bike, which is a strange design but would have excellent magnetic separation due to distance. It looks like there's been a leak at some point between the radiator and one of its hoses, which is probably best left well alone unless it leaks again. Not a good idea to disturb old rubber hoses like this, unless brand new spares are to hand.

    I've been putting this off, waiting on the first Stein Dinse order to arrive, but I should have done this earlier. Always good to know how the fairings come off and what's underneath them.
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  6. #51
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    28th January 2015 - 16:17
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    Starting

    With the fairings off, I got onto one of the to-do jobs and cleaned up the terminals between battery, starter solenoid and starter motor.

    Simple enough: go looking for grease, dirt and oxidation, remove these, reassemble. A surprise was finding that Ducati had released the bike with passivation coating most of the nuts, washers, and the battery terminal adaptors.

    Passivation is a thin coating which protects against corrosion to some degree, is easily scratched, and makes an apparent electrical connection once everything is tightened up. What it doesn't do very well is make a good high amperage connection. Trying to get 50 amps or more through the starter motor needs good metal-to-metal contact through the entire starter circuit, with broad contact and conduction areas. Anywhere current is restricted, a voltage drop will occur and oomph will be lost.

    Some sanding of eyelets, nut faces, replacement of washers etc later and I was away. I haven't run the bike yet but have tried starting it. Massive improvement. The delay (press button, wait, one, two... there we go) is gone. It engages and turns the engine over straightaway.

    I haven't tracked the issue with the 7.5A fuses down yet. It's possible that the fuses went due to oxidation on their connectors leading to a high resistance hotspot, local heating and thus the fuses getting cooked. It's possible that simply pulling and replacing them, thereby wiping the oxidation off the connectors, sorted the issue. It's sort of hopeful but I'll try a local ride or two with a pocket full of spares, and see how I go.
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  7. #52
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    3rd March 2008 - 11:55
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    Quote Originally Posted by OddDuck View Post
    The axle tensioners function as spacers inside the swingarm box sections, the box section will flex enough to nip up against the tensioner. After that it's solid metal the whole way through.

    Crushed swingarms? What's been going on?
    Thanks, saved me having a look.

    Have seen a couple of swingarms with axles through them that have had the crap cranked out of them, if there's nothing inside and things get done up super tight things end up the wrong shape.

    Anyway, stop finding things I need to check on my bike, although the upside is that I thought mine was a bit rough but apparently there are worse ones out there in the world.......
    Riding cheap crappy old bikes badly since 1987

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  8. #53
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    28th January 2015 - 16:17
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    2000 Ducati ST2
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    ST2 / 3 / 4 mufflers - high and low positions

    Having a play with the mufflers.

    The ST2 is an unusual bike in that the mufflers are designed to quickly and easily raise or lower, as per OEM design. It almost takes longer to read this than to do it... there's a swivel arrangement in the tubing on the forward part of the muffler, where it joins the cross of the exhaust headers. The two swivels (one for each muffler) are tensioned against each other with a spring.

    There's a bolt on the muffler hangar. The bolt has two possible positions, one lower on the bracket that carries the hard bags, one higher on the bracket for the pillion passenger foot pegs. Undo bolt, swivel muffler into new position, replace and retighten bolt. That's it, there's no need to undo the front end of the mufflers for this. Takes about a minute per side unless you're using Loctite. I'd thought I might have to take the hard bag brackets off, it turns out that this can be done if you like or they can be left on so that hard bags go on again easy later.

    It's a simple enough idea: lower muffler position so that hard bags with a decent capacity will go on, higher muffler position for improved ground clearance and thus more lean angle in corners for sportier riding. The photos attempt to show this, I was interested in seeing if the foot pegs would start grounding before the mufflers did. It does look like there's a big difference in ground clearance between the two muffler positions.

    The photos are shot with the RH muffler raised, the LH muffler lowered. The last two photos are rotated crops of the two front pictures.
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  9. #54
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    14th July 2006 - 21:39
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    2015, Ducati Streetfighter
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    Years back I imported from Harbor Freight in USA a big arse vernier that allows me to measure from the centre of the swingarm pin to the rear axle - match on both sides and the rear end is sweet.

    Not used on the current Ducati as it's a single sided swingarm so a cam adjuster.

    Agree re Ducati's skimpy little axle nuts (weight saving?) I purchased some purpose built sockets that lock in the hollow axle as well as the nut. The rear on mine gets wound up to something silly and the scoket needs to be secure. And a front axle driver tool to tap it out sweetly. Any excuse for tools

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