... I would say that it is usually trailers etc as most cars will wear out the tyres before becoming too old...
Well, not quite...
Last two cars got so little use that on the previous-previous car front tyres began to de-laminate well before they were half worn, probably about 5 years old. The previous one the tyres were due for replacement as getting on in years but still had 5mm of tread. That was solved the day it got its last WoF [12 Dec and after doing 654km in previous 6 months] when some muppet attempted a u-turn on a 4 lane road. Note use of word "attempted" - he was thwarted by being hit, at slow speed, by me...
Just proves the point that caspernz made about cars owned by retired people, especially retired people who own bikes as well... and travel overseas for a couple of months a year...
they dont tell us such things.Even if it only one its too many.Any report the someone"lost control" could be an old tyre issssue.Any "blowout" will most likely be an old tyre issue.
Old tyres are real and dangerous,as already demonstrated here with the stories of trailers etc with shredded tyres.I would say that it is ussually trailers etc as most cars will wear out the tyres before becoming too old.
Would you serously ride a new to you motorbike with tyres that could be 15yrs old on a long ride at open road speed.?
The stats don't show an accident as being due to "old or aged tyres" but will list it as loss of control. In some ways a single vehicle loss of control event may well have old tyres as a contributing factor. Add in heat cycles a tyre has seen, how the rubber loses its traction over time, and it makes for a perfect storm. Old tyres on bikes, well yeah I've shared one personal story. How many riders have a bike that does very few clicks each year, yet ride as though the rubber is fresh from the warmers on that sunday morning sprint? No way of proving it, but this event will have been repeated a few times. Again not solely down to the tyres, they were only playing a supporting role
Originally Posted by Woodman
He would ride the bike because it is not illegal therefore any accident caused by the tyre would not be his fault.
Ignorance is bliss, just as well we have ACC
Originally Posted by Moi
Well, not quite...
Last two cars got so little use that on the previous-previous car front tyres began to de-laminate well before they were half worn, probably about 5 years old. The previous one the tyres were due for replacement as getting on in years but still had 5mm of tread. That was solved the day it got its last WoF [12 Dec and after doing 654km in previous 6 months] when some muppet attempted a u-turn on a 4 lane road. Note use of word "attempted" - he was thwarted by being hit, at slow speed, by me...
Just proves the point that caspernz made about cars owned by retired people, especially retired people who own bikes as well... and travel overseas for a couple of months a year...
How many folks do we know who have a sunday car, or classic car of sorts, that ventures out of the garage 3 times a year and clocks less than a 1000 kms annually? Bet you those tyres will crack up and let go before the tread is worn off. The original example I used of trailer/caravans/boat trailers is there for all of us to see, and it repeats each year, so I figured it a fair topic to have a crack at.
It was related to tyre pressure and heat although the Decatur plant certainly had problems, the majority of failures were in the States with a hotter climate and with the low pressure specified heat build up was a problem
That same tyre was used on other vehicles with none of the failure problems the Explorer had, Explorer 26psi which is unheard of in a vehicle that size, other vehicles (Ranger)ran 36psi
In NZ we ran 36psi and a cooler climate, Ford here were recommended to use another Firestone product but they declined and the end result was just a heap of punctures due to the lighter construction of the OE fitment
Having lived in US for a while, driving is definitely different than NZ. Hot conditions in southern states surely can destroy a tyre quickly. Ford sometimes has a brain fart, like with Pinto and then Explorer - both exploders.
Last two cars got so little use that on the previous-previous car front tyres began to de-laminate well before they were half worn, probably about 5 years old. The previous one the tyres were due for replacement as getting on in years but still had 5mm of tread. That was solved the day it got its last WoF [12 Dec and after doing 654km in previous 6 months] when some muppet attempted a u-turn on a 4 lane road. Note use of word "attempted" - he was thwarted by being hit, at slow speed, by me...
Just proves the point that caspernz made about cars owned by retired people, especially retired people who own bikes as well... and travel overseas for a couple of months a year...
agree,but i did say Ussually,and the sort of car you describe would be the sort of car that most of us would have misgivings about the tyres
Old tyres on bikes, well yeah I've shared one personal story. How many riders have a bike that does very few clicks each year, yet ride as though the rubber is fresh from the warmers on that sunday morning sprint? No way of proving it, but this event will have been repeated a few times. Again not solely down to the tyres, they were only playing a supporting role
Yup, on bikes the tyres do not necessarily have to be that old. Not up to task is enough. A tyre I had on the back of my TDM turned to teflon well before it reached the tread limit. It would have been no more than a couple of years old. I guess the rubber compound, tread pattern and basic design were not adequate for such a heavy bike. After a couple of slides on dry, clean, corners off it came. Went straight in the bin with me soiled undies.
So I guess cheaper tyres and mis-matched (to bike) is potentially as risky over time as old age setting in.
Agree, but i did say Usually, and the sort of car you describe would be the sort of car that most of us would have misgivings about the tyres
Only if the owner/driver was not aware or thinking about the tyres. Garage who serviced and did WoF are very aware of the use the car got and had mentioned at the time of the June WoF that the tyres were close to the end of their life. I had before than decided that new tyres were needed and would be done in January 2018, as the car would sit for 2 months while we were overseas. In the meantime the car did a weekly run to a supermarket, if it was lucky, or a few local trips on urban streets with the speed below 60km/h and probably no more than 20km total each trip. However, with a couple of long trips down country coming up in the first quarter of 2018 then new tyres would be needed, for piece of mind. All of that was solved by the u-turning muppet...
... How many folks do we know who have a Sunday car, or classic car of sorts, that ventures out of the garage 3 times a year and clocks less than a 1000 kms annually? Bet you those tyres will crack up and let go before the tread is worn off. The original example I used of trailer/caravans/boat trailers is there for all of us to see, and it repeats each year, so I figured it a fair topic to have a crack at.
A reminder to go and check the tyres on ALL vehicles is not wasted...
I just got back from a 2200km tour down south, touching all the tourist driving black spots. Mckenzie, Kawarau gorge, Milford Sound,Catlins, Roxborough, Haast pass etc. Did not have a single moment APART from 2 dickhead kiwi drivers in the same queue traveling down the Glacier hiway. Both pulled out to pass at the same time with oncoming traffic ( me) and not enough space. They were forced to both push their way back in. I was suprised by the adequate standard of driving by the tourists but in perspective the weather was perfect and roads in good order. I always felt vulnerable on the Milford road despite its good order and heavy signage, one bad call by them or me and we would have been bonnet ornaments on a rental Corolla!
I agree with you about when the back tire squares off it impairs handling but as I dont corner like Rossi I find it managable until the tread depth is longer WOF compliant.
Can I suggest you use a car or truck tyre instead of a motorbike one. Then it will be pre-squared off for ya at the start of its life
Well I've been reading... (what us old folks did before the interweb happened)
One useful thing I learned is that tyre pressures should be checked set at an ambient temp of 20 deg celcius (or cold as weve all been taught as that's about the same).
Never air down a hot tyre to adjust its pressure as you'll let more out than you've bargained for. (kinda noticed this on DR up in bush lowering pressure after the tarmac ride to the dirt)
Anyway even this pro nitrogen site https://www.getnitrogen.org/faq.php had very little evidence to offer, they even admit that half the problem with ordinary air is water from the compressor but that's easily solved with a decent setup and good work ethics.... Interesting they claim oxygen breaks down the rubber, enough to mention anyway. Apparently the nitrogen molecules are slightly bigger than oxygen so permeate through the tyre wall slower.
(rubber is porous incase you didn't know and tyres/tubes naturally lose pressure over time because of this).
A physics forum webpage even had the calculation to measure expansion of ordinary tyre air due to temp. Even on a big temp change it was only 6%. That's just under 2psi on a tyre running at 30psi cold.
Back to aging tyres, the problem/danger is the unseen condition of the internal carcass structure. Either steel ply or nylon, both will suffer with age. A tell tale tip of the internal structure failing is an egg shaped bulge in the side wall as air travels thru a split/layers and pushes on outer wall. Ive had truck tyres like this changed out before they blow, saving mudguards and taillights.
The biggest issue with old tyres though is they will likely not be holding their pressure leading to unpredictable handling and over heating.
With bikes be aware that tyres are made for performance not longevity these days, see pic of tyre that had a fun short life and went from ok to Damn your getting binned in one ride of about 120km at speeds below the go to jail level....
Will try dig out pics I took of mich pilot, cut in half to shop canvas riding mate how little is left at low levels....
Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket - Eric Hoffer
I had an instance of tread/carcase separation recently on my car. An odd wear pattern developed - a wave pattern around the whole circumference of the tread. Alternating high wear and low wear in waves about 150mm apart. That tyre got markedly noisier too. Easy to hear on the rear of a light commercial wagon with no sound insulation in the rear - but you'd never hear it on a bike.
It was pointed out to me by the WOF guy while it was on the hoist. It was actually legal within the regs - but got replaced next day...
Edit - it was still in balance. Most of my running is open road so I always get the rears balanced...
Anyway even this pro nitrogen site https://www.getnitrogen.org/faq.php had very little evidence to offer, they even admit that half the problem with ordinary air is water from the compressor but that's easily solved with a decent setup and good work ethics.... Interesting they claim oxygen breaks down the rubber, enough to mention anyway. Apparently the nitrogen molecules are slightly bigger than oxygen so permeate through the tyre wall slower.
(rubber is porous incase you didn't know and tyres/tubes naturally lose pressure over time because of this).
Even with water traps on the compressors there's still moisture. oxygen does break down the rubber the at a rate so slow it's not something I'd bother worrying about, practical experience has shown me Nitrogen definitely loses pressure at a far slower rate
Originally Posted by R650R
A physics forum webpage even had the calculation to measure expansion of ordinary tyre air due to temp. Even on a big temp change it was only 6%. That's just under 2psi on a tyre running at 30psi cold.
Meanwhile back in the real world, trying that in real life shows they don't have a clue or their calculation is flawed
Originally Posted by Grumph
I had an instance of tread/carcase separation recently on my car. An odd wear pattern developed - a wave pattern around the whole circumference of the tread. Alternating high wear and low wear in waves about 150mm apart. That tyre got markedly noisier too. Easy to hear on the rear of a light commercial wagon with no sound insulation in the rear - but you'd never hear it on a bike.
It was pointed out to me by the WOF guy while it was on the hoist. It was actually legal within the regs - but got replaced next day...
Edit - it was still in balance. Most of my running is open road so I always get the rears balanced...
I doubt that was a separation, that is a very common wear pattern on front drive cars, mostly on the left rear if the tyres aren't rotated regularly
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