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Thread: 450 triple race bikes

  1. #1
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    450 triple race bikes

    I’m tentatively thinking of trying to pick up a 450 triple race bike for next season. Do these come up for sale very often?

    And for anyone who has built them, what the cost to do a quality job (with a good tune)?
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    I'm curious as to why you would do this to a machine instead of just keeping it as a 600? Genuinely, I don't get it.. Care to enlighten?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WALRUS View Post
    I'm curious as to why you would do this to a machine instead of just keeping it as a 600? Genuinely, I don't get it.. Care to enlighten?
    An obsolete 600 - meaning more than 3 years old - can be a competitive F3 bike. No fabrication to mount odd motors in odd frames - and if you keep the bits it can go back to being a 600.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WALRUS View Post
    I'm curious as to why you would do this to a machine instead of just keeping it as a 600? Genuinely, I don't get it.. Care to enlighten?
    cost of tyres for one, the 600 supersport ain't cheap whereas there's a lot of differnt styles of bikes in superlite/formula three so you can still play with someone somewhere through the filed, 450's are cheaper to register too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WALRUS View Post
    I'm curious as to why you would do this to a machine instead of just keeping it as a 600? Genuinely, I don't get it.. Care to enlighten?
    ...liddler bikes is good...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by WALRUS View Post
    I'm curious as to why you would do this to a machine instead of just keeping it as a 600? Genuinely, I don't get it.. Care to enlighten?
    As above, cheaper race class, lots of competition in the field, use fewer tyres, etc etc. plus I’ve done 600s and thinking of something new.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharp2183 View Post
    I’m tentatively thinking of trying to pick up a 450 triple race bike for next season. Do these come up for sale very often?

    And for anyone who has built them, what the cost to do a quality job (with a good tune)?
    Mine cost very little to convert as I disable the fuel injection on 1 cylinder when I want it to be a 450cc triple and reenable it when I need a 600cc. If you go to JayCar and get some switches, relays etc you can set it up to swap backwards and forwards at the flick of a switch so you can run F2 and F3 in the same day. Of course gearing is a compromise. Best to put the switch somewhere you can't reach it when riding though to avoid allegations of cheating.

    Quote Originally Posted by WALRUS View Post
    I'm curious as to why you would do this to a machine instead of just keeping it as a 600? Genuinely, I don't get it.. Care to enlighten?
    • my 12 year old bike (bought as a runner for $4000) is competitive in F3/Superlite vs finishing last all day every day in F2/600's
    • 4 days for a set of tyres vs 1 day (600cc)
    • my engine was built 6 years ago and is still going strong because it's so understressed as a 3 cylinder it's ridiculous
    • the choice of aftermarket parts available is enormous compared to other F3 bikes
    • handling/suspension/tyres of a modern 600 vs quicky/hard to get stuff for other F3 bikes


    That's a start.
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    Awesome info MT. I don’t suppose you have it tuned specifically for the 450?

    What bike are you running?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sharp2183 View Post
    Awesome info MT. I don’t suppose you have it tuned specifically for the 450?

    What bike are you running?
    It's tuned for 4 cylinders. Tuning for 3 only seems to be worth an extra 1hp if you're lucky. One thing the 450's do respond to is some ignition advance. It gives marginally more power (less than 1hp) but on the dyno the torque and power curves are much smoother and the engine just feels better.

    2005 CBR600RR
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    Hmm - it's a IL4 that you just stop injecting fuel into one pot to make it a 450 triple?

    Presumably you still thrash it within a inch of the rev limiter in either format?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AllanB View Post
    Hmm - it's a IL4 that you just stop injecting fuel into one pot to make it a 450 triple?

    Presumably you still thrash it within a inch of the rev limiter in either format?
    that's a basic way of doing it, some remove the piston and put a balance weight on the crank and other things too

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllanB View Post
    Hmm - it's a IL4 that you just stop injecting fuel into one pot to make it a 450 triple?
    Yep.

    Quote Originally Posted by AllanB View Post
    Presumably you still thrash it within a inch of the rev limiter in either format?
    Mines set to 15,500rpm and it's happy bouncing off the limiter all day long. Although that's not very useful as power falls off a cliff at 14,800rpm

    Quote Originally Posted by jellywrestler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AllanB View Post
    Hmm - it's a IL4 that you just stop injecting fuel into one pot to make it a 450 triple?

    Presumably you still thrash it within a inch of the rev limiter in either format?
    that's a basic way of doing it, some remove the piston and put a balance weight on the crank and other things too
    There's a bunch of ways people have done them

    • The original way was to plug the exhaust near the collector, remove the exhaust valves and plug the guides
    • Be lazy and do what I did, unplug the injectors on 1 cylinder from the loom then fool the ECU with a resistor
    • The Americans have often used a 5th set of injectors with a loop of tubing that connects to the inlet and outlet of the injector and filled with water to keep the injector from catching fire (none ever have but still)
    • The Americans have also been known to buy a second set of cams and grind the lobes off the appropriate cylinder, then disable fuel injection on that cylinder
    • Drill holes in the piston then add weight back in around the gudgeon pin
    • Because we can do anything we like to the engine in Superlite the most popular method here is to remove the piston + conrod and put a bob weight on the crank
    Zen wisdom: No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously. - obviously had KB in mind when he came up with that gem

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  13. #13
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    Some ECU's will throw an error code when they can't detect a coil/injector.
    Can I scream?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave- View Post
    Some ECU's will throw an error code when they can't detect a coil/injector.
    All of them do. Mostly we fool them. On the Honda's you can use a simple 360R resistor across the plugs on the loom side. GSXRs you can use an inductor (but it absolutely needs cooling) instead. With other machines it's easiest to use a 5th set of injectors. Or you can do the Woollich Racing thing and flash the ECU.
    Zen wisdom: No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously. - obviously had KB in mind when he came up with that gem

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mental Trousers View Post
    GSXRs you can use an inductor (but it absolutely needs cooling) instead. With other machines it's easiest to use a 5th set of injectors. Or you can do the Woollich Racing thing and flash the ECU.
    Totally curious now, how do you go about cooling them? rig them into the coolant?

    5th set of injectors? huh? as far as I know the most "sets" you can get a 2 in bikes with staged injection?

    What about the spark plugs?

    Do you remove the 2nd stage injector too?
    Can I scream?

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