Scooters Are Hard (er) To Ride In A Test

[rastuscat]

I had a chap yesterday arrive to do his Basic Handling Skills Test with his own 150cc scooter. CVT transmission. That's an auto transmission.

He thought it would be easier than riding our GN125 as there was no need to change gears. Well I can tell you, CVT transmissions have challenges of their own, and the BHST is no doddle on a CVT bike.

When you throttle on, there's a slight lag, as the CVT winds itself up and gets going. When it does, especially on bigger bikes, it takes off quite quickly. At the other end of the scale, when you throttle off, there's significantly less deceleration, so the brakes get far more use. Basically, your throttle control needs to be better on a CVT bike than a GN, as the GN is seasier to maintain constant progress on, without accelerating or decelerating.

Add to this the smaller wheels, and they tip into corners more quickly. The one yesterday had less lean angle than a GN as well.

Don't get me wrong, I like CVT bikes. I rode the one yesterday, and it wasn't hard to ride. I rode the course and stages on the bike yesterday, and It's quite a cool bike. But it has it's own set of challenges.

Just don't go thinking it's easy to do a test on an auto bike. It's not hard, it's just different. But it's also not easy.

[Moi]

As someone who rides both a CVT scooter [MP3-400] and a conventional bike, I wholeheartedly agree with what you are saying.

Both are great to ride and both have their niches - the CVT has the advantage, in my opinion, in stop-start traffic where you are unable to filter. Also, as you say, quick off the mark especially the smaller-engined ones. The 400 can be a little slow on the initial move off but once away it accelerates effortlessly - easy to catch up to traffic in front that is not as quick. The conventional bike leaps to the fore when you are not in that stop-start situation.

As an urban commuter the MP3 is great - quite capable of maintaining motorway speeds, plenty of storage space, and with the CVT no gears to worry about in traffic. From a couple of riders who had never ridden a CVT before, their first time on the MP3 was both an eye-opener and wake-up call about different riding techniques.

[HenryDorsetCase]

As an urban commuter the MP3 is great - quite capable of maintaining motorway speeds, plenty of storage space, and with the CVT no gears to worry about in traffic. From a couple of riders who had never ridden a CVT before, their first time on the MP3 was both an eye-opener and wake-up call about different riding techniques.

I've always really liked those but been put off by the price. Can you filter between lanes on it? That was one of the best things about my Suzuki AN125 as a commuter. That and the storage - and the ability to get a box of beers on the floor between your feet!

[Moi]

I've always really liked those but been put off by the price. Can you filter between lanes on it? That was one of the best things about my Suzuki AN125 as a commuter. That and the storage - and the ability to get a box of beers on the floor between your feet!

True, the new ones are expensive. However, if you can find a used 250 or 400 then you might be able to haggle on the price a bit. As for filtering, if you can filter with a mid-sized or bigger bike then you can get one of these through as well. If the traffic is very heavy and the lanes are squeezed together than you might have an issue - but then most other bikes would also have an issue.

[WALRUS]

Absolutely agree!

Also speaking as someone who rides both a CVT scooter and Conventional gearboxed motorcycles, they do require different skill sets.. I wouldn't say that one was inherently better or easier than the other, they've both got strong points and require different techniques. Not many people get that without riding one, I know that the first time I rode a Scooter, I was used to 650 twins and 600 supersports... Suddenly having little to no engine braking and a completely different throttle response, I found myself getting into a lot of stupid and dangerous situations!

[EJK]

I can possibly understand why he would not want to ride the riding school bike as he would have a fear of being in the wrong gear at the wrong time and getting judged by you for it. What I would have done Rastus if I was you is maybe invite him to have a dedicated gear changing lesson where the focus is on not only improving gear changing ability but to also develop a sense not to panic if he gets it wrong. From my experience the more you do it the more confident you feel and any sense of panic should go away over time even when you get it wrong. I find even today if I buy a new bike or demo a bike there is always the possibility of getting in the wrong gear due to differing gear ratios and powerbands as I get used to it but due to experience I never panic.

Just how many gears do you need riding around a car park? It's not a MotoGP track.

Plus, if he can't even change gears, should he pass BHST? Looks like the test-ee (hehe) tried to cheat his way through but got backfire instead.

[YellowDog]

In the early 2000s, my cousin got a Gillera 180cc scooter for his 17th birthday and asked me if I wanted to have a go. I said no at first and he looked offended, so I had a go. I got stopped by a Cop whom claimed I was pinged at just under 130kph. We both looked at each other in total disbelief. "It's just a scooter mate, there must be something wrong with your gear." - Lucky for me, he left it at that, but I told his Dad to take the scooter back and get something else, less potent. Those things are very very quick off the mark

[rastuscat]

In the early 2000s, my cousin got a Gillera 180cc scooter for his 17th birthday and asked me if I wanted to have a go. I said no at first and he looked offended, so I had a go. I got stopped by a Cop whom claimed I was pinged at just under 130kph. We both looked at each other in total disbelief. "It's just a scooter mate, there must be something wrong with your gear." - Lucky for me, he left it at that, but I told his Dad to take the scooter back and get something else, less potent. Those things are very very quick off the mark

A Gilera Runner. I had one of those, bloody rocket ship. They were 2 stroke bogan tamers.

Re why people are allowed to do a test on a CVT bike, it's the law. Provided the vehicle is a LAMS approved motorcycle, people are allowed to use their own.

We only use 1st and 2nd gear in the BHST. It teaches people how to use a clutch.

[Drew]

I thought that was you at the track. I was the dude picking up my white truck...and stolen your picnic table.

[rastuscat]

I thought that was you at the track. I was the dude picking up my white truck...and stolen your picnic table.

Bastard !!!!! Bring my table back !!!!!!!

Next time introduce yourself. Let's abuse each other in reality, instead of in cyber space.

[Drew]

Bastard !!!!! Bring my table back !!!!!!!

It's still there. We just used it for the weekend.

[Moi]

I thought Rastus gave lessons beyond a car park level but on the actual road which does require confident gear changing skill.

Why don't you go along and find out!

You might learn something...

[jasonu]

I can possibly understand why he would not want to ride the riding school bike as he would have a fear of being in the wrong gear at the wrong time and getting judged by you for it. What I would have done Rastus if I was you is maybe invite him to have a dedicated gear changing lesson where the focus is on not only improving gear changing ability but to also develop a sense not to panic if he gets it wrong. From my experience the more you do it the more confident you feel and any sense of panic should go away over time even when you get it wrong. I find even today if I buy a new bike or demo a bike there is always the possibility of getting in the wrong gear due to differing gear ratios and powerbands as I get used to it but due to experience I never panic.

If you don't know what gear you are in or what gear is appropriate for a given situation you have no business riding on the road.

[pritch]

Just how many gears do you need riding around a car park? It's not a MotoGP track.

On some of those Tilke tracks the GP riders don't use many more gears than you need for a BHT.

[Gremlin]

Even motorcycles can vary to a significant degree. The chain driven CB919 is quite direct while the BMW with an electronics list longer than my sleeve, shaft drive and long travel suspension has, for lack of a better word, a lot of slop between throttle movement and response.