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  1. #1
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    Not New Message

    BUt I thought it is just too good an article to not bring to the fore again, and again, and again:

    Current for all, free info for all, :

    Maybe! Maybe? a post box/Thread title/ called- Biker recurrent training and Education::

    This is the article:

    Braking in a corner - from Nick Ienatsch

    I have posted this before, for the OP and others that may not have seen it..... IMO it is a long, but good read.

    Cheers!

    *************************************************


    "If you have to stop in a corner, one of two things will happen. One, you will stand the bike up and ride it off the shoulder and into whatever is over there. Or two, you will lay the bike down and slide off the shoulder of the road. Braking is done before, or after a corner. The best thing to do before taking a corner is to grind the thought "I'm going to turn this corner" into your mind."

    Hiya FZ1 lovers.
    I’ve stewed for two days about the above quote taken from another FZ1OA thread...and finally decided to launch this thread. In past years I would have just rolled my eyes and muttered, “Whatever”…but not anymore. I want to tell you that there are measureable, explainable, repeatable, do-able reasons that make great riders great. And brake usage is at the very tippity-top of these reasons. It’ll save your life, it’ll make you a champion. It will save and grow our sport.
    I’ll ask this one favor: Would you open your mind to what I’m about to write, then go out and mess around with it?
    To begin: Realize that great motorcycle riding is more subtle in its inputs than most of us imagine. I bet you are moving your hand too quickly with initial throttle and brakes. Moving your right foot too quickly with initial rear brake. The difference between a lap record and a highside is minute, almost-immeasureable differences in throttle and lean angle. The difference between hitting the Camaro in your lane and missing it by a foot is the little things a rider can do with speed control at lean angle. Brakes at lean angle. Brakes in a corner.
    Yes, a rider can brake in a corner. Yes. For sure. Guaranteed. I promise. Happens all the time. I do it on every ride, track or street. Yes, a rider can stop in a corner. In fact, any student who rides with the Yamaha Champions Riding School will tell you it’s possible. Complete stop, mid-corner…no drama. Newbies and experts alike.
    There are some interesting processes to this sport, mostly revolving around racing. But as I thought about this thread, putting numbers on each thought made more sense because explaining these concepts relies on busting some myths and refining your inputs. Some things must be ingrained…like #1 below.

    1)You never, ever, never stab at the brakes. Understand a tire’s grip this way: Front grip is divided between lean angle points and brake points, rear grip is lean angle points and acceleration points, lean angle points and brake points. Realize that the tire will take a great load, but it won’t take a sudden load…and so you practice this smooth loading at every moment in/on every vehicle. If you stab the brakes (um...or throttle...) in your pickup, you berate yourself because you know that the stab, at lean angle on your motorcycle (and bicycle, btw), will be a crash.

    2)Let’s examine tire grip. If you’re leaned over at 95% (95 points in my book Sport Riding Techniques and fastersafer.com) of the tires’ available grip, you still have 5% of that grip available for braking (or accelerating). But maybe you only have 3%!!! You find out because you always add braking “points” in a smooth, linear manner. As the front tire reaches its limit, it will squirm and warn you…if that limit is reached in a linear manner.
    It’s the grabbing of 30 points that hurts anyone leaned over more than 70 points. If you ride slowly with no lean angle, you will begin to believe that aggressiveness and grabbing the front brake lever is okay…and it is…until you carry more lean angle (or it’s raining, or you’re on a dirt road or your tire’s cold…pick your excuse). Do you have a new rider in your life? Get them thinking of never, ever, never grabbing the brakes. Throttle too…

    3)If you STAB the front brake at lean angle, one of two things will happen. If the grip is good, the fork will collapse and the bike will stand up and run wide. If the grip is not-so-good, the front tire will lock and slide. The italicized advice at the beginning was written by a rider who aggressively goes after the front brake lever. His bike always stands up or lowsides. He’s inputting brake force too aggressively, too quickly...he isn't smoothly loading the fork springs or loading the tire. He may not believe this, but the tire will handle the load he wants, but the load must be fed-in more smoothly…and his experience leads to written advice that will hurt/kill other riders. “Never touch the brakes at lean angle?” Wrong. “Never grab the brakes at lean angle?” Right!
    But what about the racers on TV who lose the front in the braking zone? Pay attention to when they lose grip. If it’s immediately, it’s because they stabbed the brake at lean angle. If it’s late in the braking zone, it’s because they finally exceeded 100 points of grip deep in the braking zone…if you’re adding lean angle, you’ve got to be “trailing off” the brakes as the tire nears its limit.

    4) Radius equals MPH. Realize that speed affects the bike’s radius at a given lean angle. If the corner is tighter than expected, continue to bring your speed down. What’s the best way to bring your speed down? Roll off the throttle and hope you slow down? Or roll off the throttle and squeeze on a little brake? Please don’t answer off the top of your head…answer after you’ve experimented in the real world.
    Do this: Ride in a circle in a parking lot at a given lean angle. That’s your radius. Run a circle or two and then slowly sneak on more throttle at the same lean angle and watch what your radius does. Now ride in the circle again, and roll off the throttle…at the same lean angle. You are learning Radius equals MPH. You are learning what throttle and off-throttle does to your radius through steering geometry changes and speed changes. You are learning something on your own, rather than asking for advice on subjects that affect your health and life. (You will also learn why I get so upset when new riders are told to push on the inside bar and pick up the throttle if they get in the corner too fast. Exactly the opposite of what the best riders do. But don’t believe me…try it.)
    Let me rant for a moment: Almost every bit of riding advice works when the pace is low and the grip is high. It’s when the corner tightens or the sleet falls or the lap record is within reach…then everything counts.
    “Get all your braking done before the turn,” is good riding advice. But what if you don’t? What if the corner goes the other way and is tighter and there’s gravel? It’s then that you don’t need advice, you need riding technique. Theory goes out the window and if you don’t perform the exact action, you will be lying in the dirt, or worse. Know that these techniques are not only understandable, but do-able by you. Yes you! I’m motivated to motivate you due to what I’ve seen working at Freddie’s school and now the Champ school…
    I’m telling you this: If you can smoothly, gently pick-up your front brake lever and load the tire, you can brake at any lean angle on and FZ1. Why? Because our footpegs drag before our tires lose grip when things are warm and dry. It might be only 3 points, but missing the bus bumper by a foot is still missing the bumper! If it’s raining, you simply take these same actions and reduce them…you can still mix lean angle and brake pressure, but with considerably less of each. Rainy and cold? Lower still, but still combine-able.

    5)So you’re into a right-hand corner and you must stop your bike for whatever reason. You close the throttle and sneak on the brakes lightly, balancing lean angle points against brake points. As you slow down, your radius continues to tighten. You don’t want to run off the inside of the corner, so you take away lean angle. What can you do with the brakes when you take away lean angle? Yes! Squeeze more. Stay with it and you will stop your bike mid-corner completely upright. No drama. But don’t just believe me…go prove it to yourself.

    6)Let’s examine the final sentence in the italicized quote. The best thing to do before taking a corner is to grind the thought "I'm going to turn this corner" into your mind.
    No, that’s not the best thing. It’s not the worst thing and I’m all for positive thinking, but we all need to see the difference between riding advice and riding techniques. This advice works until you enter a corner truly beyond your mental, physical or mechanical limits. I would change this to: The best thing to do before taking a corner is to scan with your eyes, use your brakes until you’re happy with your speed and direction, sneak open your throttle to maintain your chosen speed and radius, don’t accelerate until you can see your exit and can take away lean angle.
    7)Do you think I’m being over-dramatic by claiming this will save our sport? Are we crashing because we’re going too slowly in the corners or too fast? Yes, too fast. What component reduces speed? Brakes. What component calms your brain? Brakes. What component, when massaged skillfully, helps the bike turn? Brakes. If riders are being told that they can’t use the brakes at lean angle, you begin to see the reason for my drama level. When I have a new rider in my life, my third priority is to have them, “Turn into the corner with the brake-light on.”

    I’ve said it before: This is the only bike forum I’m a member of. I like it, I like the peeps, I like the info, I love the bike. Could we begin to change the information we pass along regarding brakes and lean angle? Could we control our sport by actually controlling our motorcycles? If we don’t control our sport, someone else will try. Closed throttle, no brakes is “out of the controls”. Get out there and master the brakes.
    Thanks, I feel better.

    Nick Ienatsch
    Yamaha Champions Riding School
    Fastersafer.com
    A condom is to keep ones Pipe clean.

  2. #2
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    ...I'll read that when I have a month off...and have nothing at all to do, and after I have reread all my Beanos...

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassina View Post

    I will agree with you that you can safely brake when in a corner and not loose it but its the degree of braking pressure that decides if you will lose it or not and some on here do not want to try it incase they apply too much pressure and lose it.
    isn't this the same for when braking when upright or am i missing something?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassina View Post
    That looks like a page out of the IAM riding school handbook as they will agree with you that you can not learn to ride unless your understanding is real complex. IAMs people on here say it takes years to learn to ride their way and become certified.

    I will agree with you that you can safely brake when in a corner and not loose it but its the degree of braking pressure that decides if you will lose it or not and some on here do not want to try it incase they apply too much pressure and lose it.
    you're a fuckwit
    Quote Originally Posted by jellywrestler View Post
    isn't this the same for when braking when upright or am i missing something?
    quite a few knocks to the head and (unrelatedly because it's all about luck) "not at fault crashing experience"

  5. #5
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    NO Idea:

    It is Author signed:Nick Ienatsch
    Yamaha Champions Riding School


    Quote Originally Posted by cassina View Post
    That looks like a page out of the IAM riding school handbook as they will agree with you that you can not learn to ride unless your understanding is real complex. IAMs people on here say it takes years to learn to ride their way and become certified.

    I will agree with you that you can safely brake when in a corner and not loose it but its the degree of braking pressure that decides if you will lose it or not and some on here do not want to try it incase they apply too much pressure and lose it.
    One of the reason I thought to place it, was that fairly recently we had a couple of "Bald Bikers" talking to us about rider safety and corner braking came up, and they were applauding ABS systems.

    The other was that as the 15-16 year old village idiot, Ray Tomasi & Pat Steer told me the same, and taught me to brake in a corner.

    So I have always done it, just the feel of the fingers.
    A condom is to keep ones Pipe clean.

  6. #6
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    About 50 years ago I found that I could safely brake in a corner if I kept a positive throttle setting (ie keep some power on) and used the back brake. You do need to be a little sensitive to how much of each you apply. Hasn't failed so far...
    . “No pleasure is worth giving up for two more years in a rest home.” Kingsley Amis

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by slofox View Post
    About 50 years ago I found that I could safely brake in a corner if I kept a positive throttle setting (ie keep some power on) and used the back brake. You do need to be a little sensitive to how much of each you apply. Hasn't failed so far...
    It's called trail braking from the rear. Very effective when practiced and it can be used as a get out of jail free card, for when you've misjudged a bend

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by caspernz View Post
    It's called trail braking from the rear. Very effective when practiced and it can be used as a get out of jail free card, for when you've misjudged a bend
    Or, used pretty much all the time if you want to get there in a hurry on a pre paralever BMW.
    With the added benefit of raising the ground clearance.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by crack View Post
    It is Author signed:Nick Ienatsch
    Yamaha Champions Riding School




    One of the reason I thought to place it, was that fairly recently we had a couple of "Bald Bikers" talking to us about rider safety and corner braking came up, and they were applauding ABS systems.

    The other was that as the 15-16 year old village idiot, Ray Tomasi & Pat Steer told me the same, and taught me to brake in a corner.

    So I have always done it, just the feel of the fingers.
    Your avatar has been seen here before.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    but once again you proved me wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by cassina View Post
    I was hit by one such driver while remaining in the view of their mirror.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by nzspokes View Post
    Your avatar has been seen here before.
    and it sprichs ze doich

  11. #11
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    Thumbs up Do you not like my Avatar!

    Quote Originally Posted by Akzle View Post
    and it sprichs ze doich
    Thats:

    Sprichst du deutsch: niceone:


    Ich habe kein Deutsch:
    A condom is to keep ones Pipe clean.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by crack View Post
    Thats:

    Sprichst du deutsch: niceone:


    Ich habe kein Deutsch:
    no. it's exactly as i typed it, because i dont sprich ze doich.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by nzspokes View Post
    Your avatar has been seen here before.
    Yeah, first thing I noticed too. My first reaction was “thread dredge” until I realised different member name.
    I lahk to moove eet moove eet...

    Katman to steveb64
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I'd hate to ever have to admit that my arse had been owned by a Princess.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrincessBandit View Post
    Yeah, first thing I noticed too. My first reaction was “thread dredge” until I realised different member name.
    Yeah it gave me a moment of pause as well.

    Was a very sad time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    but once again you proved me wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by cassina View Post
    I was hit by one such driver while remaining in the view of their mirror.

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