'97 ZX9R - Whine at 80km/h

[WanaGo]

Hey,

Ive had my ZX9R since 2005. Back in 2012 it developed a whine at 80km/h, and it had some use between then and 2014, but was then put away till only a few weeks ago. Pulled it out again, dusted her off, fully cleaned out the tank and carbs/o-rings etc and it flew through its WOF like a champ.
However...
The noise at 80 is still there.
It doesnt matter what gear your in, what RPM, clutch in or out, the noise is there at 80km/h, +/- about 5km/h around that.
When you pull the clutch in, the whine sound volume increases.

I took it to Richards Motorcycles in Johnsonville (Wellington) back in 2013, and he spent the best part of a day on it, doing other bits too, but couldnt determine what the sound was. He thought it might be the speedo, however I have since eliminated that as the problem.
I then took it to TSS in the Hutt in Wellington in early 2014, and the bike came back worse than it went in, quite honestly. Not relating to this noise, as they couldnt figure out the noise at the time then, however the main point of it going in was for the B Service, not specifically for this sound issue.

It starts off as a sort of shimmering whine, not a constant shound, but a shh shh shh shh sort of sound, but it develops into a constant whine as the journey goes on. The Whine however isnt just a little whine, its like a full on soul destroying possessed beast, its rather loud, especially right on 80.
Did I mention its loud? It sounds like its all around you, so I have not been able to figure out where the sound is coming from.

Chain was one thought, and possibly wheel bearings, but clutch-in sort of rules out the front wheel bearing, but the back one or the sprocket carrier bearing could still be in play and the noise volume increases due to load changes.
Someone one mentioned it could be those rubber blocks in the back wheel or front sprocket, but I havent investigated there yet. It doesnt sort of seem like it would be chain or sprocket related though, it seems more like a bearing. I have adjusted the chain betwen a little loose and boarderline too tight, and the sound remains. I was hoping for it to highlight something, but it seems not.
Could it be the output shaft bearings on the transmission, given its speed related, and not RPM?
Could it be the clutch? The clutch overall works fine, no crunches between gears, there a thunk when you first click it into 1st from Neutral, but other than that it changes smooth. I think the thunk is fairly normal for these bikes.

So the Bike is a 1997, its done 51000km.

I dont want to sell the bike, its worth more to me than I would get for it, so I want to plod away and get it running right again.
If I was to take it into a shop, Im guessing it would be $1000 of time to figure out what the problem is, wit hno guarantee they would even find it (from previous experience) plus whatever parts it might end up being.

Any ideas I would greatly appreciate.

If there is anyone in Wellington who is a guru with bikes and would be happy to ride over one day and take it for a spin to help diagnose it, I would really appreciate it. Really wanting to get it sorted.
Short of this, I guess I just have to start buying bearings and replace things bit by bit, and hope that one of them solves the problem - but that is less than ideal.

Thanks

[AllanB]

Change the wheel bearings.

If it was engine or gearbox you'd think it would be dependent on rpms.

Pull in the clutch and you still hear it so leads me to wheels.

Before you pull the wheels out, have you degreased and re-lubed the chain? Are the sprockets in good condition? Also pop off the front sprocket cover and clean out all the gunk that is behind there. A long shot but costs nothing other than a hour in your shed tomorrow night.


I had a 1982 Kawasaki that developed a really loud random engine noise randomly. Random in that it always had the same pace despite speed or rpm. I had to leave it with the shop for a week before it did it for them (pretty sure they thought I was going mad) the good buggers had a peep where they thought it may be but found nothing so shut it back up as Kawasaki would not cover anything under warranty unless it was broken. They just said ride the shit out if it. It disappeared later on and I ended up putting over 110,000 kms on that bike.

[WanaGo]

Cheers AllanB

I havent fully removed the chain and degreased etc, I have kerocened it from time to time and washed and oiled, and then just the regular oiling. And no I havent removed the front sprocket cover. I guess ill get that done ASAP then.
The rear sprocket I was looking at today. It doesnt look bad, I have never changed it since owning it though, or the chain. The teeth on the rear sprocket are not symetrical anymore, but I wouldnt say they are dead either, comparing to what I can see in the Haynes manual. The chain adjustment is pretty extended now though, so potentially the chain is getting a bit long in the tooth... but it would be really odd if this sound was chain, as it sounds nothing like chain noise.

I have new front and rear bearings on their way, along with the sprocket carrier bearing, so I will replace those since I have them coming anyway. They might be here later this week, or early next. Tomorrow I will get stuck into the front sprocket and see what I can see in there.
Still would seem odd if it is the front sprocket and gunk...

Pulling the the clutch makes the sound louder, but since the sprockets are turning due to the wheels turning, then the output shaft on the gearbox will be spinning too, so that doesnt rule out the output shaft bearings I think... But wheel bearings first, and go from there I guess.

Cheers

[SVboy]

Keep us posted. If it was output shaft bearings surely they would whine at all speeds, not just 80 Kms? I think your approach is correct, wheel bearings and carrier bearings first. Not fixed? New chain and sprocket set next. How about brake pad rub on slightly warped rotors or with old caliper seals stopping the pistons from retracting easily?

[sidecar bob]

Have you tried a different helmet? One of my bikes has a horrible noise when I wear one helmet & nothing with another helmet.
The noise doesn't exist, it's some weird combination of factors that creates the situation.

[T.W.R]

Keep us posted. If it was output shaft bearings surely they would whine at all speeds

Not necessarily, it's like rubbing your finger on a crystal wine glass....harmonic resonance

[jellywrestler]

Have you tried a different helmet? One of my bikes has a horrible noise when I wear one helmet

are you sure the wife wasn't on the bike at that time?

[WanaGo]

Thanks Guys

Yes I have changed helmet, nothing to do with that, its definitely the bike, not my head
I have a Shark Race-R Pro Carbon coming today which I picked up, fingers crossed it fits perfectly - ill have to give it a try when that arrives for sure to see if its 10000% not helmet though

Brakes, I got new pads and disc when TSS did the service, and the sound was there before and after, so its not that.
I have new brake pads in the front coming with my wheel bearings, so they will be changed out then too. I am pretty sure I have attempted a light touch on the brakes while riding and the sound remained, but I will double check that - good thinking. I dont think its brake noise though somehow.

RE the output shaft, yeah like T.W.R said, ressonance etc. That is all I can think of too as to why its not constant, but for some reason if it is a bearing, then potentially its just worn to a degree that 80km/h seems to be its vibrating point. Tis a little odd though.

Ill eliminate one at a time, thanks for your help

[sidecar bob]

Do you have a headlamp cover or any other accessory that may cause an aerodynamic wind noise?

[WanaGo]

No accessories like that I dont believe, it was basically stock when I got it, had a different muffler on it, and it potentially had been crashed at one point, maybe on the track as when I painted it there were a number of fairing bits cracked which I got repaired. Also under the seat instead of being all moulded plastic etc, its very nicely formed up alloy sheet. But aside from all that, its stock I beleive.

https://preview.ibb.co/dJKrMw/20180112_141415.jpg

Here is a picture of my rear sprocket too. From what I can tell of the Haynes, this is still within limits - but happy to be told otherwise.

https://preview.ibb.co/dWfbob/20180122_123457.jpg

[T.W.R]

Here is a picture of my rear sprocket too. From what I can tell of the Haynes, this is still within limits - but happy to be told otherwise.

https://preview.ibb.co/dWfbob/20180122_123457.jpg

That sprocket is toast...it's starting to hook, if it's like that the front sprocket is probably worse. You're best to fit a new set sprockets & chain.
the noise though will be isolated to either the output shaft or the rear wheel bearings or sprocket hub bearing

[WanaGo]

Ah ok - thank you.
I will start the hunt for new chain and sprockets then. Any recommendations which are not so hard out they cost a fortune, but still decent?

Yep I agree with the rear wheel bearings/carrier bearing, or the output shaft.
My old man just went to get his bike serviced and ask the mechanic there about my bike, and he said "definitely on the counter shaft bearing, front sprocket" - "getting louder when offloading the drive - yep".
I may as well get in those bearings at the same time.

Thanks

[WanaGo]

So if it is the output shaft, would I be right in thinking its the 2x 92045 ball bearings which need to be replaced?
What about things like bushings or the needle bearings, 92028A and the 2x 92046 ?

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/ka...4/transmission

Thanks

[Katman]

Just a random suggestion - does it still make the noise with the fuel cap open?

[WanaGo]

Now that I havent tried...
Can you elaborate?

I know when its sitting there in the sun, the vent in the lid whistles. Even when in the shed, now and then it squeeks as I guess its releasing pressure.

What are your thoughts?