BOOS Hurting Us

[Moi]

never had a car or bike with ABS.

also never been in a situation i'd need to use it.

you're right on about the staged/progressive braking. and that sudden or callous input is risky.
i still disagree about your ABS comment. and will until i see some evidence

You might find this interesting...

and then might not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2T3clFrB8U

[Akzle]

You might find this interesting...

and then might not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2T3clFrB8U

i might except i dont jewtube. summarise, or link an article or something.

[Moi]

i might except i dont jewtube. summarise, or link an article or something.

The blurb under the video...

This is a great introduction to emergency braking for learner-drivers and newly licensed drivers, as well as an excellent refresher on the subject for drivers who have been driving for quite some time. How to stop your car in an emergency shows you the four key things you must do if you want to stop your car in the least possible distance when an emergency presents itself on the road. The techniques are both preventative (ie - they show you how you can prevent a dangerous situation from becoming critical and requiring an emergency stop) and also deal with the 'how to' aspect of stopping in the least possible distance. The latest brake technologies - ABS (the anti-lock braking system), EBD (electronic brake-force distribution) and EBD (emergency brake assist) are all explained as well. (And why you definitely want them in the vehicle you are driving, when the chips are down.)

[Akzle]

" The latest brake technologies - ABS (the anti-lock braking
system), EBD (electronic brake-force distribution) and EBD (emergency
brake assist) are all explained as well."

i dont want them "explained"

i have a fair idea of what they are and how they work.

can anyone actually prove " by giving the lever
progressive steps you help the ABS do it's job even better"
without waffling off about some other shit?

that was all i had issue with. one thing. get around, fucksakes.

[pritch]

can anyone actually prove " by giving the lever
progressive steps you help the ABS do it's job even better"
without waffling off about some other shit.

No proof but...

That Youtube article is quite good, among other things he is telling the unskilled drivers that they should just mash the brake pedal as hard as they can and let the tech sort it out.

On a bike if you didn’t load the front, the ABS might kick in a bit earlier than if you loaded the front first, but then you’d need to consider the time you were wasting on the weight transfer.

Most riders don’t use the brake hard enough to lock the front wheel at speed anyway.

How many of you who have ABS on your bike have had it kick in on dry seal?

[rastuscat]

But I'm honestly curious about your comment "I train to brake efficiently without engaging it". And why.

When I practise emergency stops (it's just part of my riding routine, maybe each week, maybe each fortnight, it's not special) I try to stop as quickly as I can.

If the ABS engages, I just regard that with the wildly enthusiastic thought best described as "Meh".

I basically don't care if the ABS engages. I just wanna stop fast. I try to get lots of grip into the front tyre by progressively loading the weight forward and spreading the contact patch out, while at the same time gaining extra stability in the stop by using the back brake as hard as I can without locking it.

It's just kind of fine tuning. If I can brake up to just before the point where point where ABS says "I got this", that stops me pretty damn hard.

It also trains me. I get used to that point through practise. Kind of ironically, as I tend to try to ride in a manner so that nothing should ever become an emergency, then I train for an emergency stop just in case.

I have to think a very long way back (like, years) to when I last had to emergency brake. That's a product of riding with awareness.

[AllanB]

I have to think a very long way back (like, years) to when I last had to emergency brake. That's a product of riding with awareness.

There is nothing quite like that feeling when you have to slow down very rapidly and suddenly become aware just how fast you are travelling.................

[Akzle]

just mash the brake pedal as hard as they can and let the tech sort it out.

On a bike if you didn’t load the front, the ABS might kick in a bit earlier than if you loaded the front first, but then you’d need to consider the time you were wasting on the weight transfer.?

which is what i'm trying to determine. i don't believe proper braking and ABS go together at all.

[Viking01]

But I'm honestly curious about your comment "I train to brake efficiently without engaging it". And why.

When I practise emergency stops (it's just part of my riding routine, maybe each week, maybe each fortnight, it's not special) I try to stop as quickly as I can.

If the ABS engages, I just regard that with the wildly enthusiastic thought best described as "Meh".

I basically don't care if the ABS engages. I just wanna stop fast. I try to get lots of grip into the front tyre by progressively loading the weight forward and spreading the contact patch out, while at the same time gaining extra stability in the stop by using the back brake as hard as I can without locking it.

It's just kind of fine tuning. If I can brake up to just before the point where point where ABS says "I got this", that stops me pretty damn hard.

It also trains me. I get used to that point through practise. Kind of ironically, as I tend to try to ride in a manner so that nothing should ever become an emergency, then I train for an emergency stop just in case.

I have to think a very long way back (like, years) to when I last had to emergency brake. That's a product of riding with awareness.

Had just wondered whether there was some technical reason that would
have been worth knowing about. Excellent. Answers my question. Thanks.

Cheers,
Viking

[granstar]

Not sure what you mean by this. The head should be kept as near vertical as practicable. The horizon is part of your sense of balance. If cornering on a bike you don't really want to be affecting your balance by sending your brain confusing information. Check photos of GP riders, even at the extreme angles of lean they use, they are keeping their head as near vertical as possible.

.

Like this... https://youtu.be/aSwRKByIrjI

came from here http://www.ridinginthezone.com/body-position-tips-2/

[george formby]

But I'm honestly curious about your comment "I train to brake efficiently without engaging it". And why.

When I practise emergency stops (it's just part of my riding routine, maybe each week, maybe each fortnight, it's not special) I try to stop as quickly as I can.

If the ABS engages, I just regard that with the wildly enthusiastic thought best described as "Meh".

I basically don't care if the ABS engages. I just wanna stop fast. I try to get lots of grip into the front tyre by progressively loading the weight forward and spreading the contact patch out, while at the same time gaining extra stability in the stop by using the back brake as hard as I can without locking it.

It's just kind of fine tuning. If I can brake up to just before the point where point where ABS says "I got this", that stops me pretty damn hard.

It also trains me. I get used to that point through practise. Kind of ironically, as I tend to try to ride in a manner so that nothing should ever become an emergency, then I train for an emergency stop just in case.

I have to think a very long way back (like, years) to when I last had to emergency brake. That's a product of riding with awareness.

This. Practice.

I still do the same when I get the opportunity. I don't have ABS but the bike will leave a shadow of rubber on the road without locking up. It's a fine line at that point...

Moi, rain is the perfect time to practice and be awed by the grip of modern rubber. Probably most pertinent to when you need the skills, too.

Speaking of which - this I feel is the advantage of ABS if you can brake with control. Regardless of how you good you are it's impossible to predict how much grip you have over the ground you cover with the anchor out. Saving a lock up is another skill set and best learned in a grassy paddock on a cheap bike.

I'm no fan of braking in a corner, it generally means I have really screwed up my entry and the bike gets wilful. Braking into a corner is a different matter. For years the tread on my front tyre had eyelashes due to holding the front brake on into the apex. Yes, muppetry, I know. Never had an issue with grip or road position, though. The rear brake is more effective for tightening the turn and evading those who do not understand the white line.
Another skill best learned in a grassy paddock.

But yeah, practice.

[rastuscat]

When I started this thread I was looking for a constructive discussion.

And I got one. My faith in humanity is restored.

5 pages, and still I've not seen anyone called a f***wit.

[Berries]

Post 7 I think.

[caspernz]

When I started this thread I was looking for a constructive discussion.

And I got one. My faith in humanity is restored.

5 pages, and still I've not seen anyone called a f***wit.

Maybe we can take this topic you kicked off, in a slightly different direction then Pete?

Was talking with one of my trainees yesterday on a related topic, he'd identified (not entirely accurately I might add) that a lot of Harley riders struggled with corners. So when we'd done our debrief at the end of our ride, we got back to the comment he'd made with some passion. Now I don't necessarily disagree with him that there are a good number of Harley riders who struggle to make good progress on twisty bits of road. Been out with a certain chap on a Road King that same day, and he certainly knew how to make progress around bends...

The BOOS syndrome you started has another component that may need pointing out. I'm possibly going to get shot down for this, but I reckon there are bike riders and then there are guys with bikes. We all know them, for they come out every summer. Rego on hold for the winter, then come summer the bike gets dusted off and into the wild blue yonder the guys with bikes go...some are Harleys for sure, but in fairness there's plenty of sportier bikes that struggle with bendy bits of road, when piloted by a certain class of rider. And that class of rider certainly exhibits the BOOS symptoms.

By comparison, take a year round rider and the skills stay crisp and it sure as heck shows.

My five cents

[Akzle]

.

5 pages.

you need to sort your settings out old son. shit's only 2 pages.