PMSL - Nice work guys. How you all held it all back for so long................
not knowing about (insert your favourite name here) aka counter steering is why newbies crash into things they were hoping to avoid. See a hazard, instinctively turn the bars to swerve away and and bang, counter steer effect puts then straight into it.
it's not a bad thing till you throw a KLR into the mix.
those cheap ass bitches can do anything with ductape.
(PostalDave on ADVrider)
Well, you can call things whatever you like but there are established terms. As others have pointed out some people think of it as pulling on the bars so your terminology is no less confusing. As for topic creep, it seems to be the norm unfortunately.
Or pull. Actually I noticed that I twist, i.e. pull and push, unless I am riding one handed.
Cheers
Yes, that's a good analogy. The brain instinctively (insert ridiculous alternative here)s, subconsciously. However once a panic situation occurs, and the conscious thought processes kick in; left = right AND right = left (you know.... the bike counter-steers), many riders are unaware of such laws of physics, governing (insert ridiculous alternative here), so will unfortunately fail to avoid the hazard, or fail to safely negotiate a bend.
Some call this 'Target Fixation' - Personally I thinks that's BS. With the exception of ladies breasts, 'Target Fixation', from a motorcycling perspective, doesn't exist and is just a weak excuse for not understanding (insert ridiculous alternative here).
Now we've fully addressed the (insert ridiculous alternative here) issue; can someone please start a new tread on changing the term 'Target Fixation' to: Rider does not understanding (insert ridiculous alternative here) ?
Hmmmmmm. I reckon target fixation is a thing but I also agree that a conscious steering response often works in reverse leading to scenery visits.
My loosest bowel moments on bikes have been saved by turning my head, everything else followed. Turning my head was the only conscious action. (Look for the f*&^%$g gap!)
I remember (vividly) being caught up by a sprot bike on a twisty country road in the UK. Being immature I upped the pace, probably past my limits. Deep into a corner a huge tree appeared in front of me, the corner continuing to tighten. It really caught my attention!
I recall tearing my startled gaze away from the tree and into the corner, the bike followed. No drama, ultimately. No idea what my steering input was.
What I still think about is the sprot bike. It did not appear in my mirrors again despite me taking a chill pill. You can guess my line of thought on this...... Quite uncomfortable.
Manopausal.
Congrats on having instincts, that saved you. Some can do that instinctively, but many can't and unless they understand (insert ridiculous alternative here), the scenery may not be totally splendid
For me, 'Target Fixation' is caused by the rider attempting to tighten the turn, but steering the wrong way, due to not understanding (insert ridiculous alternative here). They wouldn't be fixed on the target, if they were able to steer away from it. The action of looking away, to the intended/safe direction of travel, allows the subconscious brain to make it all happen. That's not an easy thing to achieve, in such butt clenching scenarios.
But yes, I do take your point
It is definitely a conscious decision, with teeth gritted and buttocks clenched. Should be easy, tree or road? Doesn't feel like that.
I guess you could say that reacting to such a scenario without consideration of the physics would make the rider a puller when they really should have been a pusher..
Makes a good case for being counter to new spin on old techniques.
Manopausal.
"No idea what my steering input was" sums it up nicely.
In a life-or-death crisis situation with the [immovable object] looming large, conscious probably thought doesn't come into it. We revert to the subconscious behaviors we've learnt and practiced or, as the last resort, fall back on our instincts (we throw up our arms, close our eyes and scream like girlies!).
So, the question is whether consciously thinking about [weird counterintuitive motorbike steering trick thing] helps at all. I'm still not convinced. Personally, I feel I've learnt it by doing, not by any class or book, not even the amassed KB expertise.
If anything, rationally deciding which side to push or pull would be a distraction at the worst possible moment, but I don't think it would happen.
"Look and lean", or simply "Look", trumps the Mastermind approach, for me.
YMMV (Your Motorcycling May Vary)
"Shout! Shout! Let the clutch out!" Gears for Fears
Yup. It's an amazing dynamic but you're absolutely right. Turn that big heavy turnip on me shoulders and the bike follows accordingly.
I would love to see an ultra slow mo vid of how the head instigates a turn, preferably a scantily clad nubile demonstrating so I can see the change in muscle and subtle body position interactions as the body follows the command.
Manopausal.
All the nubiles I know are well-clad, I'm afraid, but I shall continue searching, for research purposes.
"Shout! Shout! Let the clutch out!" Gears for Fears
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