Page 4 of 10 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 142

Thread: Counter-steering, an unhelpful term

  1. #46
    Join Date
    14th June 2007 - 22:39
    Bike
    Obsolete ones.
    Location
    Pigs back.
    Posts
    5,393
    Quote Originally Posted by BMWST? View Post
    even if you are going below the speed that you dont need to steer the bike you can still use counter steering to transition from one side to the other.You dont tend to counter steer trials bike becuase you are ussually going below that speed where you dont need to "steer"
    Far to factual and sensible.
    Manopausal.

  2. #47
    Join Date
    13th April 2007 - 17:09
    Bike
    18 Triumph Tiger 1050 Sport
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,802
    PMSL - Nice work guys. How you all held it all back for so long................

  3. #48
    Join Date
    14th June 2007 - 22:39
    Bike
    Obsolete ones.
    Location
    Pigs back.
    Posts
    5,393
    Quote Originally Posted by eldog View Post
    Sorry if you think I have derailed your OP.

    was trying to expand my knowledge about how far this method of steering can go.

    its that being able to commit to that extra, firm push I don’t currently have.

    myself I Prefer push steering, but countersteer is easier to identify with
    In all seriousness. Weaving around in a car park will lift your game and increase your confidence in leaning immensely.

    Blew my mind after decades of riding without ongoing training..
    Manopausal.

  4. #49
    Join Date
    6th May 2012 - 10:41
    Bike
    invisibike
    Location
    pulling a sick mono
    Posts
    6,057
    Blog Entries
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamA View Post
    Yes, we all steer mostly un-consciously but when a situation demands it a firm push on a bar is far more effective.
    which should, by training, be your default response.

    this "use of positive language" shit is just psychobable.

    it's the same thing doing sikk skidz in a car au. your steering input is *counter* to the intended path. the arse end controls the vector.

  5. #50
    Join Date
    6th May 2012 - 10:41
    Bike
    invisibike
    Location
    pulling a sick mono
    Posts
    6,057
    Blog Entries
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by GazzaH View Post
    So does that make acceleration counterbraking?

    Or am I retarded?
    rbcifgip .

  6. #51
    Join Date
    6th May 2012 - 10:41
    Bike
    invisibike
    Location
    pulling a sick mono
    Posts
    6,057
    Blog Entries
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by allanb View Post
    hmm - it would be counter-retardation. Thus not being a retard so this must mean acceleration is good (but not past buses - that is retarded).
    rbcifgip .

  7. #52
    Join Date
    3rd February 2004 - 08:11
    Bike
    1982 Suzuki GS1100GK, 2008 KLR650
    Location
    Wallaceville, Upper hutt
    Posts
    5,049
    Blog Entries
    4
    not knowing about (insert your favourite name here) aka counter steering is why newbies crash into things they were hoping to avoid. See a hazard, instinctively turn the bars to swerve away and and bang, counter steer effect puts then straight into it.
    it's not a bad thing till you throw a KLR into the mix.
    those cheap ass bitches can do anything with ductape.
    (PostalDave on ADVrider)

  8. #53
    Join Date
    28th September 2015 - 10:26
    Bike
    2015 Aprilia Tuono Factory
    Location
    Christchurch
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamA View Post
    I started this thread to put forward the idea of calling counter-steering push-steering but it has grown into a discussion on all sorts of aspects of how bikes are steered. Whatever it's called, all we do when we push on a bar is to initiate a bank. After that, many bikes will follow a curving path on their own, but some, like my Buell require the pressure to be maintained to prevent the bike standing up and running straight.
    Well, you can call things whatever you like but there are established terms. As others have pointed out some people think of it as pulling on the bars so your terminology is no less confusing. As for topic creep, it seems to be the norm unfortunately.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamA View Post
    Yes, we all steer mostly un-consciously but when a situation demands it a firm push on a bar is far more effective.
    Or pull. Actually I noticed that I twist, i.e. pull and push, unless I am riding one handed.

    Cheers

  9. #54
    Join Date
    13th April 2007 - 17:09
    Bike
    18 Triumph Tiger 1050 Sport
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,802
    Quote Originally Posted by pete376403 View Post
    not knowing about (insert your favourite name here) aka counter steering is why newbies crash into things they were hoping to avoid. See a hazard, instinctively turn the bars to swerve away and and bang, counter steer effect puts then straight into it.
    Yes, that's a good analogy. The brain instinctively (insert ridiculous alternative here)s, subconsciously. However once a panic situation occurs, and the conscious thought processes kick in; left = right AND right = left (you know.... the bike counter-steers), many riders are unaware of such laws of physics, governing (insert ridiculous alternative here), so will unfortunately fail to avoid the hazard, or fail to safely negotiate a bend.

    Some call this 'Target Fixation' - Personally I thinks that's BS. With the exception of ladies breasts, 'Target Fixation', from a motorcycling perspective, doesn't exist and is just a weak excuse for not understanding (insert ridiculous alternative here).

    Now we've fully addressed the (insert ridiculous alternative here) issue; can someone please start a new tread on changing the term 'Target Fixation' to: Rider does not understanding (insert ridiculous alternative here) ?

  10. #55
    Join Date
    14th June 2007 - 22:39
    Bike
    Obsolete ones.
    Location
    Pigs back.
    Posts
    5,393
    Hmmmmmm. I reckon target fixation is a thing but I also agree that a conscious steering response often works in reverse leading to scenery visits.

    My loosest bowel moments on bikes have been saved by turning my head, everything else followed. Turning my head was the only conscious action. (Look for the f*&^%$g gap!)

    I remember (vividly) being caught up by a sprot bike on a twisty country road in the UK. Being immature I upped the pace, probably past my limits. Deep into a corner a huge tree appeared in front of me, the corner continuing to tighten. It really caught my attention!

    I recall tearing my startled gaze away from the tree and into the corner, the bike followed. No drama, ultimately. No idea what my steering input was.

    What I still think about is the sprot bike. It did not appear in my mirrors again despite me taking a chill pill. You can guess my line of thought on this...... Quite uncomfortable.
    Manopausal.

  11. #56
    Join Date
    13th April 2007 - 17:09
    Bike
    18 Triumph Tiger 1050 Sport
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,802
    Quote Originally Posted by george formby View Post
    Hmmmmmm. I reckon target fixation is a thing but I also agree that a conscious steering response often works in reverse leading to scenery visits.

    My loosest bowel moments on bikes have been saved by turning my head, everything else followed. Turning my head was the only conscious action. (Look for the f*&^%$g gap!)

    I remember (vividly) being caught up by a sprot bike on a twisty country road in the UK. Being immature I upped the pace, probably past my limits. Deep into a corner a huge tree appeared in front of me, the corner continuing to tighten. It really caught my attention!

    I recall tearing my startled gaze away from the tree and into the corner, the bike followed. No drama, ultimately. No idea what my steering input was.

    What I still think about is the sprot bike. It did not appear in my mirrors again despite me taking a chill pill. You can guess my line of thought on this...... Quite uncomfortable.
    Congrats on having instincts, that saved you. Some can do that instinctively, but many can't and unless they understand (insert ridiculous alternative here), the scenery may not be totally splendid

    For me, 'Target Fixation' is caused by the rider attempting to tighten the turn, but steering the wrong way, due to not understanding (insert ridiculous alternative here). They wouldn't be fixed on the target, if they were able to steer away from it. The action of looking away, to the intended/safe direction of travel, allows the subconscious brain to make it all happen. That's not an easy thing to achieve, in such butt clenching scenarios.

    But yes, I do take your point

  12. #57
    Join Date
    14th June 2007 - 22:39
    Bike
    Obsolete ones.
    Location
    Pigs back.
    Posts
    5,393
    Quote Originally Posted by YellowDog View Post
    Congrats on having instincts, that saved you. Some can do that instinctively, but many can't and unless they understand (insert ridiculous alternative here), the scenery may not be totally splendid

    For me, 'Target Fixation' is caused by the rider attempting to tighten the turn, but steering the wrong way, due to not understanding (insert ridiculous alternative here). They wouldn't be fixed on the target, if they were able to steer away from it. The action of looking away, to the intended/safe direction of travel, allows the subconscious brain to make it all happen. That's not an easy thing to achieve, in such butt clenching scenarios.

    But yes, I do take your point
    It is definitely a conscious decision, with teeth gritted and buttocks clenched. Should be easy, tree or road? Doesn't feel like that.

    I guess you could say that reacting to such a scenario without consideration of the physics would make the rider a puller when they really should have been a pusher..

    Makes a good case for being counter to new spin on old techniques.
    Manopausal.

  13. #58
    Join Date
    10th February 2017 - 15:01
    Bike
    Honda Foreman, now
    Location
    Hawkes Bay
    Posts
    343
    "No idea what my steering input was" sums it up nicely.

    In a life-or-death crisis situation with the [immovable object] looming large, conscious probably thought doesn't come into it. We revert to the subconscious behaviors we've learnt and practiced or, as the last resort, fall back on our instincts (we throw up our arms, close our eyes and scream like girlies!).

    So, the question is whether consciously thinking about [weird counterintuitive motorbike steering trick thing] helps at all. I'm still not convinced. Personally, I feel I've learnt it by doing, not by any class or book, not even the amassed KB expertise.

    If anything, rationally deciding which side to push or pull would be a distraction at the worst possible moment, but I don't think it would happen.

    "Look and lean", or simply "Look", trumps the Mastermind approach, for me.

    YMMV (Your Motorcycling May Vary)

  14. #59
    Join Date
    14th June 2007 - 22:39
    Bike
    Obsolete ones.
    Location
    Pigs back.
    Posts
    5,393
    Quote Originally Posted by GazzaH View Post
    "Look and lean", or simply "Look", trumps the Mastermind approach, for me.

    YMMV (Your Motorcycling May Vary)
    Yup. It's an amazing dynamic but you're absolutely right. Turn that big heavy turnip on me shoulders and the bike follows accordingly.

    I would love to see an ultra slow mo vid of how the head instigates a turn, preferably a scantily clad nubile demonstrating so I can see the change in muscle and subtle body position interactions as the body follows the command.
    Manopausal.

  15. #60
    Join Date
    10th February 2017 - 15:01
    Bike
    Honda Foreman, now
    Location
    Hawkes Bay
    Posts
    343
    All the nubiles I know are well-clad, I'm afraid, but I shall continue searching, for research purposes.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •