Page 5 of 10 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 142

Thread: Counter-steering, an unhelpful term

  1. #61
    Join Date
    6th May 2012 - 10:41
    Bike
    invisibike
    Location
    pulling a sick mono
    Posts
    6,057
    Blog Entries
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by GazzaH View Post
    it. We revert to the subconscious behaviors we've learnt and practiced or, as the last resort, fall back on our instincts)
    t.r.a.i.n.e.d.

    reflexes aint worth shit if they're the wrong ones.

    the sam'rai used to drill until their sword reflexes were "no-mind"

    and it's oft repeated that the difference between a hobby and a skill is ten thousand hours.

    (of course, doing the same shit wrong for 10000 hours would just make you more of a fuckwit, which brings me roundly back to point A)

  2. #62
    Join Date
    24th December 2012 - 21:49
    Bike
    near silent running
    Location
    Sud Akl
    Posts
    1,934
    Brain fade occurs, not target fixation.

    this is what I want to overcome.

    the original push input may have been ok at start of manoeuvre, but corners do tighten or dip away.


    brain fade it’s that simple, quite aware of situation.
    dont seem to be able to activate response from body.
    i am guessing the subconscious needs to be programmed.
    i think it doesn’t know what to do, or how much more input can be used.
    there is also a struggle with the turn away from current position. Ie turn left required, turn left handlebars aka Yellowdog’s description


  3. #63
    Join Date
    14th June 2007 - 22:39
    Bike
    Obsolete ones.
    Location
    Pigs back.
    Posts
    4,777
    Quote Originally Posted by eldog View Post
    Brain fade occurs, not target fixation.

    this is what I want to overcome.

    the original push input may have been ok at start of manoeuvre, but corners do tighten or dip away.


    brain fade it’s that simple, quite aware of situation.
    dont seem to be able to activate response from body.
    i am guessing the subconscious needs to be programmed.
    i think it doesn’t know what to do, or how much more input can be used.
    there is also a struggle with the turn away from current position. Ie turn left required, turn left handlebars aka Yellowdog’s description
    I ride enduro, trials and road as time allows. There is a massive overlap in control and bike dynamics, believe it or not. Every time I ride, whatever bike I'm on, I make a point of finding a place or space to practice relevant techniques. I don't feel I've had a good ride unless I spend a little time re-enforcing my basic skills.

    Sorry to bang on, time is not your friend, but a little bit of practice when you can goes a long way.

    All the best.
    Manopausal.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    11th June 2011 - 16:30
    Bike
    Honda vfr 750 fn 1992 x2 90red
    Location
    palmerston north
    Posts
    1,505
    Blog Entries
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by AllanB View Post
    Synthetic or mineral oil?

    Road or race tyre pressures?

    Accelerate or brake for that bus?

    Vagina or Vage?

    Counter or push/pull?


    These ARE the dividing questions on a motorcycle forum.
    Typical of u stalewarts this what drives new people from sticking there heads above the parapit .
    Stop nit picking for gods sakes .
    Dont see u ever posting a fresh idea.
    Let alone a post aghhhh .
    And the so called sexuall humour enough already .


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #65
    Join Date
    11th June 2011 - 16:30
    Bike
    Honda vfr 750 fn 1992 x2 90red
    Location
    palmerston north
    Posts
    1,505
    Blog Entries
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by Laava View Post
    Cassina/Axehole bait much?
    You just know that these clowns will turn this thread to shit by the end of tomorrow...
    I agree sir enough already i stop reading or bothering replying .
    I suspect thats there goal . Shout down everone . Where modulation on here .
    Dont be fooled this site is owned and person behind it makes good money .
    So at moment he thinks this bs is not worth him loosing money . By being basicaly responding to in case he . Drives people away . But opposite is true . Needs us to express are thoughts on are web forum . Either that or he has these 4 i say . We all know them .to weed out . People negitive mods .
    I used follow amiga computer forums.
    They use very same software .
    U get the same deal . There .maybe need time out . Go do something else .


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  6. #66
    Join Date
    24th July 2006 - 11:53
    Bike
    KTM 1290 SDR
    Location
    Wgtn
    Posts
    5,498
    Quote Originally Posted by george formby View Post
    I hear ya. My post was not a shot at your topic, just tongue in cheek. Whatever you feel like calling it, it still needs to be explained how the the physics work.
    It doesn't need explaining in order to work. The ability is hard wired, it's programmed into your "how to not fall over while balancing on those long poles you move around on" control system. Try changing direction while running and look where your feet go: in the opposite direction you want to turn, which puts your center of mass over your feet for the turn. Exactly the same input you use on your bike, minimal training required.

    Quote Originally Posted by george formby View Post
    I've never ridden a Buell but it still has the same characteristics as other bikes but in different measures. That's why I mentioned trials bikes, you have to steer with the footrests, the handlebars are for attaching things too and controlling wheelies.
    The technique for steering a trials bike uses more inputs, but the objective is exactly the same: keep your center of mass over the bike's contact patches, the lateral displacement is just way less, reflecting the much lower forces involved at slow speeds.

    Also: Try a Buell. Seriously different. Look at the geometry to start with, they're closer to a trials bike than you might imagine.
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  7. #67
    Join Date
    2nd February 2018 - 21:50
    Bike
    2014 Honda NC750 SD 2007 Buell XB12Ss
    Location
    Wellington
    Posts
    33
    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    Also: Try a Buell. Seriously different. Look at the geometry to start with, they're closer to a trials bike than you might imagine.
    Indeed. While Buells are an acquired taste, I love mine which I've had since new in 2007. 88,000km of absolute delight. Nothing has ever fallen off, broken or given any trouble.

    It sure is a demanding bike to ride though, requiring the rider to show it who's boss and consciously steer the bloody thing all the time. No think-steering here. It needs push-steering at anything you'd call a real bend, both to initiate the bank and to hold the bike in it. Fork rake 21 degrees, trail 83mm, wheelbase 1370mm, wet weight 213kg, power 75kW, torque 110Nm, fun factor 10/10.

    All that push-steering has translated into conditioned reflex now to the degree that all the other bikes I ride tend to over-steer initially until I remember not to push-steer so aggressively.

    Long ago I had a new ST1100 and by using push-steering consciously it could give a good impersonation of a sport bike on twisty roads. I recall being on a rally ride at that time with a guy riding two-up on a Goldwing and boy could he ride that thing by 'rowing it' along the most winding roads. Make no mistake, conscious push-steering can make even huge bikes surprisingly agile with a rider who knows the technique.

    Contrary to what I've read here, getting the ultimate from a bike's steering does need to be learned. That's why the early discoverers of the technique called it counter-steering because it was counter to what had been understood before that.

    And who did coin the term? Research The Hurst Report on the Causes of Motorcycle Crashes.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    25th October 2002 - 17:30
    Bike
    GSXR1000
    Location
    Christchurch
    Posts
    8,296
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by actungbaby View Post
    Dont be fooled this site is owned and person behind it makes good money .
    Care to back that up?
    http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/signaturepics/sigpic31_1.gif

  9. #69
    Join Date
    5th December 2009 - 12:32
    Bike
    A red one
    Location
    Te Mosgiel
    Posts
    2,703
    Reading the post above the term looks and sounds so unnatural, regardless of whether it is an accurate description of the physics and biomechanics involved.

    I suppose when you think of it you don't ride a motorbike, you propel it.

    Perhaps we are all propellers?


    Quote Originally Posted by actungbaby View Post
    stalewarts
    I'd get them seen to.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    10th February 2017 - 15:01
    Bike
    2009 Honda TransAlp
    Location
    Hawkes Bay
    Posts
    289
    Prop heads in some cases.

    But your comment suggests a different line of rider/safety training, that of 'becoming one with the machine'.

    In many fields, there's a level of competence where the machine and the operator work in perfect harmony, like each is an extension or a part of the other. Reaching that point is a different kind of goal to just learning how to countersteer - a much grander objective. Turning the bar, twisting the turnip, shifting weight, leaning etc. are mere mechanics. Riding competently involves not just mastering the individual mechanisms but putting them all together into a seamless, fluid flow. Top notch riders are graceful. They make it appear easy and natural.

    It's a bit zen, maybe, but it's an alternative worth considering I reckon.

  11. #71
    Join Date
    28th September 2015 - 10:26
    Bike
    2015 Aprilia Tuono Factory
    Location
    Christchurch
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamA View Post
    Contrary to what I've read here, getting the ultimate from a bike's steering does need to be learned.
    I think it does. Yes normal riding around doesn't require anything special, we're animals, we balance. But you said getting the ultimate, and here I think you do need to learn some things. To flip a bike side to side going through esses takes strength and deliberate actions on the bars. I went to a training thing with Graeme Crosby at Ruapuna, a few years ago now, and he was teaching us how to turn the front wheel into the corner to pick the bike up quickly (now called counter steering). That wasn't something that came naturally, we practised and we learned it.

    Cheers

  12. #72
    Join Date
    13th April 2007 - 17:09
    Bike
    18 Triumph Tiger 1050 Sport
    Location
    K K K
    Posts
    3,771
    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamA View Post
    Contrary to what I've read here, getting the ultimate from a bike's steering does need to be learned. That's why the early discoverers of the technique called it counter-steering because it was counter to what had been understood before that.
    If you turn the steering to the left, the front wheel points left, but the bike leans right. So it's a counter steer. Couldn't really be anything else

    Unless you are an ape, with long arms and legs, able to shift your entire body weight a metre towards the side you wish to turn; hence causing the bike to lean, you use a technique appropriately named counter-steering. There are other vehicles too that have a counter steering system, not requiring a push or a pull.

    I know it is always dangerous to assume, so I hope this is not an unreasonable question to ask: Do you by chance only have one arm?

  13. #73
    Join Date
    5th December 2009 - 12:32
    Bike
    A red one
    Location
    Te Mosgiel
    Posts
    2,703
    I take it you can't have an alternative term for this on four wheels because you can actually 'counter' steer in a car. Perhaps counter is the correct word because you are actually doing something 'counter' to what would feel to be natural. Perhaps we should be thinking about the word steering which is patently something you cannot do on a bike because you do not have a steering wheel.


    Question. Those women who do boobs on bikes each year. Are they counter-tops?

  14. #74
    Join Date
    13th April 2007 - 17:09
    Bike
    18 Triumph Tiger 1050 Sport
    Location
    K K K
    Posts
    3,771
    We all do steer our bikes, with a combination of: Using handle bars, road line, weight distribution, road camber, speed, throttle, & brakes.

    It's not as simplistic as just pushing a bar, so some of our 'experts' have a lot to learn, as well as continuing to mislead those not knowing better. When you actually decide to perform the steering action is also critical to the outcome.

    To take a 90 degree low speed left turn, you counter steer to the right, to set up the lean, and then turn the handlebars leftwards, in the direction of the bend, and not in a counter direction. SO IT'S NOT A COUNTER-STEER AND NOT A PUSH STEER EITHER. At lower speeds, this appears like swinging out, before the turn. Some just lean their weight, because that's just how they do it, but you can't make a sharp turn, just by leaning, and when there's an acute camber, it can be dangerous.

  15. #75
    Join Date
    19th January 2013 - 16:56
    Bike
    a 400 and a 650 :-)
    Location
    The Isthmus
    Posts
    1,491
    Download this: In Full Control...

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •