Engagement With Motorcyclists

**rastuscat** · 1st March 2019, 08:29

Just a slightly different thought on Vision Zero. What road death number should we aim for, if not zero?

**Scuba_Steve** · 1st March 2019, 10:08

Zero's a nice pipe dream, but it is unrealistic
I don't think it should be a number or a absolute we head for. We should look to minimize retards & bad driving thus minimizing death on roads.
But 0 is impossible there will always be death, roads are dangerous & the race to an absolute makes that worse as they implement stupid decisions on their paving on the road to hell

**rastuscat** · 1st March 2019, 11:12

Originally Posted by Scuba_Steve

Zero's a nice pipe dream, but it is unrealistic
I don't think it should be a number or a absolute we head for. We should look to minimize retards & bad driving thus minimizing death on roads.
But 0 is impossible there will always be death, roads are dangerous & the race to an absolute makes that worse as they implement stupid decisions on their paving on the road to hell

I hear ya Skoober, but I ask you this : How many of your mates is is acceptable to kill in road crashes? Pick a number.

**Scubbo** · 1st March 2019, 11:39

problem is there are so many suicidal pricks on the road, not afraid to die or cause carnage "it'll just be an end to my shitty life anyway"....

not sure how you're gonna fix that, tougher penalties or punishment will only exacerbate their issues too --- guilt trip ads wont work as they have no self worth which put them still above everyone else in their list of care which is nil --- fun times on the roads

**buggerit** · 1st March 2019, 11:50

Road deaths are serious , just a shame the govt doesnt think so otherwise they
would target the real problems on the road rather than bolstering the consolidated
fund and putting the real problems in the to hard basket.
As long as they target speed they wasting time and recources, fuckwits.

**Scuba_Steve** · 1st March 2019, 13:22

Originally Posted by rastuscat

I hear ya Skoober, but I ask you this : How many of your mates is is acceptable to kill in road crashes? Pick a number.

How many would I like to see killed? none.
How do I expect are possibly gonna be killed? a couple, maybee 4.
How many are acceptable? that'll depend on the circumstances of the death.

But then I'm not the "target audience". I accept death is part of life, I accept the roads as a dangerous place (& think they should be "marketed" as such). Circumstances may piss me off, but the inevitability of death I'm alright with.

**FJRider** · 1st March 2019, 18:35

Originally Posted by rastuscat

... but I ask you this : How many of your mates is is acceptable to kill in road crashes? Pick a number.

If we only kill ourselves ... others might say we were lucky.

If your question really was "How many of our mates " .. ??? ... should die in road crashes ... you are either a dramatist or a fuckwit. Don't claim you're trying to make a point.

Motorcycling is dangerous. Usually the basic reason most motorcyclists ride. Those that choose to ride with no consideration for other motorists (or themselves) ... will be odd's on favorites to die. Sadly it does not usually / ALWAYS turn out that way. Funny (NOT) that ...

Those that ride know the risks ... and (usually) take some mitigating actions in an attempt to reduce the risks involved. Those that don't take those actions ... are pretty much their own killer if they die on the roads. Regardless of whom was declared "At Fault" for their accident. They can't say they didn't know the risks.

The old adage ... experience is something you get, right after you need it ... comes to mind. It's just a pity ... too many don't live long enough to get that experience. Simply perhaps ... because they haven't bought some experience on a training course ... or been given (or taken) good advice on how to ride like there is a tomorrow.

Thought for the day ... If only motorcyclists died in motor accidents ... would this be acceptable to the Government (of the day) and their policy ... and to the general (non motorcycle riding) public ... ???

We ALL ride as we see fit ... AT THE TIME. Fault and responsibility is for the courts and our families to discuss and decide.

If they take the risk ... then they know the risk. If things turn to custard ... they know where the blame will lie.

**AllanB** · 1st March 2019, 19:06

Can I nominate some customers ........

But seriously, zero is nice. So is no smoking, or no alcohol related issues, or poverty or, or, or .....

But giving up is not the answer.

Q: how come it is acceptable for shit loads to die in the water each year? No Government funding for surf life saving.

**FJRider** · 1st March 2019, 19:49

Originally Posted by AllanB

Q: how come it is acceptable for shit loads to die in the water each year? No Government funding for surf life saving.

On average a child dies every five weeks as a result of violence in New Zealand, and children under 12 months old make up the majority of this statistic.

Children under the age of 18 make up 20% of all violent deaths in New Zealand.

Yet less than that number of ADULT motorcyclists die (and/or are injured) on the roads ... and there is a blind panic to stop it.

Priority's ... ???

**GazzaH** · 2nd March 2019, 18:06

You present that as if it's an either-or choice.

They are BOTH 'priorities' along with many other issues.

**Swoop** · 2nd March 2019, 20:09

Originally Posted by AllanB

No Government funding for surf life saving.

Much like the ambulance service (road and air).

**AllanB** · 2nd March 2019, 20:15

Originally Posted by Swoop

Much like the ambulance service (road and air).

Good point Swoop and interesting given the government(s) spend a fortune on 'road safety' but nothing on the organisation that (hopefully) saves you if you have a crash.

That's just F-in mental.

**rastuscat** · 3rd March 2019, 05:42

Voluntary organisations partly exacerbate the problem. If St John's went on strike, permanently, the govt would likely step into the gap. As long as voluntary organisations do stuff, the govt just steps back.

It's a fine balance.

**Ruahine** · 4th March 2019, 14:25

Originally Posted by Swoop

Much like the ambulance service (road and air).

Not sure about the various Air Ambulances but St John is government funded; around 70% of frontline Ambulance costs are paid through either the DHBs or ACC. It is the other 30% that St John need to raise through part-charges and charitable donations.

To date the Ambulance sector has got by on this arrangement, but as the current St John strike action suggests, a move towards full funding is long overdue.

**Ruahine** · 4th March 2019, 14:28

Originally Posted by rastuscat

Voluntary organisations partly exacerbate the problem. If St John's went on strike, permanently, the govt would likely step into the gap. As long as voluntary organisations do stuff, the govt just steps back.

It's a fine balance.

Exactly. Running a national Emergency service as a charity might have worked 20 years ago but not anymore.