Engagement With Motorcyclists

[russd7]

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...Only-Track-Day

attending this kinda thing is a good place to start

[Berries]

I'm just looking at a new opportunity, and how to leverage it to prevent road deaths.

The motorcycle road death numbers are a problem, but are also an opportunity.

Are they really a problem though?

45 fatal crashes last year involving bikes – seven in Canterbury. Whilst any number is too many™ someone has to inject a bit of realism here.

Since 2010 the annual average has been 46 and the 45 last year was significantly less than the previous two years. Compare that to the annual average in the 1980’s of 126 and 69 in the 1990’s. Many many reasons for that but I do wonder how much of a problem we are and I see stuff like this and think that perhaps you have become too focused on this topic simply because of previous work.

Vision Zero is undoubtedly an admirable vision and gives warm and cuddly feelings but it will never happen while humans retain some degree of self-controlled mobility. There is IMO a critical level that we have to reluctantly accept for death on the roads. Accept is not the right word but I cannot come up with anything better.

I personally think that in the last few years for whatever reason the road toll has dipped below that level and now we are floating back up to it giving TPTB the perceived justification to introduce further restrictions. In the end these will be shown not to work because our roading infrastructure is so unfriendly if you leave the road and this cannot realistically be fixed unless you live in the land of unicorns. I see in the last hour that a car has twatted a power pole on the road to Lawrence. Once we underground all the power lines perhaps we can make a start on farmers fences, plenty of lives have been snuffed out by a strainer post.

Given the lack of protection that a bike gives you and the limited protection that even ATGATT gives you combined with the fact a bike has two wheels there will always be crashes and people will always die. No point even discussing that particular fact if you ask me.

If I die while riding it will be due to me fucking up or someone else fucking up and me being in the wrong place at the wrong time with my mind on other matters. I ‘think’ I know how to ride safely and keep myself out of harms way so would not be interested in any of this third party interaction to save me. If I mess up it will be because I have ignored or disregarded my inner safety voice due to red mist, or simply because I am having fun which, in the end, is the reason I ride a motorbike.

So anyway, not sure you will make a difference if your aim is to reduce the number of riders being killed on the road because the numbers are so small and reasons so varied. Good luck.



Interesting footnote. I know some people on here don't like the S word but in Canterbury ten times as many people top themselves than die in motorbike crashes. Old Press article. Makes me wonder about national priorities.

[rastuscat]

Vision Zero is an aspirational goal. Not a real world reality.

And it's a good start to strategies to address the deaths.

That things could be worse is a poor motivator.

[Honest Andy]

Interesting footnote. I know some people on here don't like the S word but in Canterbury ten times as many people top themselves than die in motorbike crashes.

Now that's sobering.

[Honest Andy]

I'm thinking of the pamphlet for riding courses that comes in the envelope with the rego every year. Most of us at least look at that. So if what you're selling/promoting is of similar worth then I reckon that'd be the place to start.

[Scubbo]

Originally Posted by Berries
Interesting footnote. I know some people on here don't like the S word but in Canterbury ten times as many people top themselves than die in motorbike crashes.



Now that's sobering.

yeah but suicide is not fun, so they won't tax it or try reduce it. thats the govt way.. now if you could make it fun then they'd try stop it

(before you get your panties in a twist, my wife supports mental health services for multiple organizations in auckland--)

[jellywrestler]

A There is IMO a critical level that we have to reluctantly accept for death on the roads. Accept is not the right word but I cannot come up with anything better.

.

accept is the right word, we have allow alcohol, guns, cigarettes and other things that all claim lives, it's the price we have to pay for these luxuries and the government accepts this otherwise they would all be banned.

[jellywrestler]

I'm thinking of the pamphlet for riding courses that comes in the envelope with the rego every year. Most of us at least look at that. So if what you're selling/promoting is of similar worth then I reckon that'd be the place to start.

wow, you should get a job in marketing, actually you may already have, as there's been a pamphlet with my rego several times recently, or was it a leaflet?
does any one know the difference between the two?

[vonstringer]

A positive message usually helps. "Learn to ride well and have more fun while getting the most out of your bike", sounds better than, "ride well or you will die."

[Blackbird]

The replies on this post are a good guide to just how difficult it is to engage with riders as a whole because of different attitudes to riding, how we perceive risk and whether we’re motivated to do anything about it.

My motivations to lift my game were purely personal. Reaching my early 60’s, I owned a Honda Blackbird and not to put too fine a point on it, ran out of talent at a fraction of the bike’s performance. A few close calls gave a good pointer to the fact that it might be me at fault. My motivator was wanting to carry on riding safely for as long as I could because bikes have always been an important part of my life. There was no Ride Forever programme at that stage but a one day course with a commercial provider confirmed that I was nowhere as good as I originally thought I was. That’s the heart of the matter – until there’s an independent check of our riding habits, it’s bloody hard to self-critique in a meaningful way.

I subsequently joined IAM and for me, it was the best move I’ve ever made - still riding and loving it at 70. I’m by no means evangelising it but it was ideal for my circumstances. Great people with no egos and a lot of fun. Not suitable for everyone but it worked for me and that’s all that matters. All down to personal choice and that’s what makes it so hard to engage with everyone. And the price we pay for our accident rate is higher costs and increasingly draconian legislation.

On a more chilled note, I rode to Hamilton yesterday to get the bike serviced and new tyres fitted (Road 5’s). Great service by Boyd’s as usual and the trip back to Coromandel was magic with the Firth an absolute picture with flat water and hazy sun and bugger-all traffic. Arrived home right on sunset totally relaxed and couldn't stop smiling – so good for the soul. This is why we ride!

[rambaldi]

Vision Zero is undoubtedly an admirable vision and gives warm and cuddly feelings but it will never happen while humans retain some degree of self-controlled mobility. There is IMO a critical level that we have to reluctantly accept for death on the roads. Accept is not the right word but I cannot come up with anything better.

I personally think that in the last few years for whatever reason the road toll has dipped below that level and now we are floating back up to it giving TPTB the perceived justification to introduce further restrictions. In the end these will be shown not to work because our roading infrastructure is so unfriendly if you leave the road and this cannot realistically be fixed unless you live in the land of unicorns. I see in the last hour that a car has twatted a power pole on the road to Lawrence. Once we underground all the power lines perhaps we can make a start on farmers fences, plenty of lives have been snuffed out by a strainer post.

People misunderstand what vision zero is actually about. They get caught up in the motivation (no one should die on the roads) and think that is unachievable so ignore the whole thing. What it is actually about is what you talk about in the following point. It is an acknowledgement that people aren't going to be perfect automatons on the road, so what can you do to lessen the chance that someone dies when things go wrong. In places it is reducing speeds (think 30 km/h on the tiny dead end streets where you would have kids playing) in places it is reshaping roads (ditching ditches and dealing with water run-off as people do overseas. In others it is moving the lights/pylons back or underground (as you suggested). Yeah some of the changes are probably gonna be shit (I can see the speed limit going down for some rural roads, although were you really following them anyway?) but the motivation is understandable and hopefully some of the changes will be good for us as well (wire barriers, armco that goes all the way to the bottom of the barrier)

[F5 Dave]

. . . .
performed by unsolicited door knockers wanting to wank on a fucking bible, . .

. . . .

What's a Fucking Bible? Last one I saw didn't have any pictures, not with that sort of action at any rate. Maybe they've tried to Sex them up a bit. Ooh Vicar, I'm getting a stiffy

[Ulsterkiwi]

if you want to engage, you want to sell something, lets call it a brand for the sake of argument. Its not a silver bullet but a brand ambassador that people like or would like to be around or want to listen to can often help. Look at what John Kirwan did for the discussion around depression and mental health. Your man King is doing a pretty good job as well. On a purely commercial basis Ritchie is bringing a more attractive side to Fonterra and having his masculinity left in tatters by the missus (apparently) is good for whatever pills that ad is pushing.
I know of others who tried to latch on to the idea and they got "celebrities" as their ambassadors, to be ruthless they were often C listers past their use by date or folks who might have pissed off Joe Public more than anything. Not helpful.

I am sure you are a wonderful human being Rastus but are you beautiful, funny, talented or otherwise loved by the good folk of GodZone? If not find yourself a motorcycling John Kirwan or better still a Rachel Hunter.

[Swoop]

I fully agree with the last two points but what has AA done wrong?

The "Automobile" Arseholes pretend to represent ALL road users, yet do no such thing.
They are more than willing to throw motorcyclists under the wheels as a sacrifice to further their own agendas. Be very wary of anything they propose...

[Akzle]

The goverment's acceptance of accidental deaths could be due to having to pay one less pension for each person who dies before reaching pension age.

fucken, would ya already?